Mike Vandermause: Thompson gaffes contribute to down year· Page 2

Greg C.
Registered

15 years ago

I am always wary of this kind of criticism. I try to remember what I thought about the decision at the time it was made, instead of the easy way to go, which is 20/20 hindsight. I read this article twice, the second time reminding myself of what I have just stated here. Hindsight is a large part of what we do on these forums, but that doesn't lessen my irritation at this type of critique, as Yondermouse doesn't post here, he "posts" in a world heavily populated with Ted Thompson haters...the haters that will continue to blindly hate due to the decision as regards a certain HOF quarterback, and he knows it.

"dfosterf" wrote:

I don't have a problem with it, because I don't see Vandermause making any claims about having predicted that these moves would turn out bad. He even said that the Corey Williams trade "appeared shrewd at the time." This is just an analysis of what went wrong. And yes, a lot of these moves were widely criticized at the time they were made anyway.

blank

dfosterf
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#12

Here is what I said about the punter decision at the time: (Another forum)

Sep 4 2008, 07:48 AM
Post #12

Veteran
***

Group: Members
Posts: 793
Joined: 9-March 07
From: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
Member No.: 1,978

I found this move "off the wall". Heck, Jon was our leading rusher last week. We got trench trouble, and this is what gets done? Hodge goes, Bush stays? I'm not seein' it, unless it's a Ted Thompson 50/50 move or something... total disruption of the punting game, coupled with the retention of a semi-qualified Bush as ST player. I don't really give a crap about directional punting when my punter's butt is hanging over the back of his own end zone, and no one can tell me this new aquisition is superior in that situation.

My point is that my point got missed. Read the commentary in the JS Online or the GBP Gazette... More often than not, it seems like the article wasn't even read by the people posting, but rather is used as a vehicle for the "airing of the grievances". I don't doubt Ironman's objectivity for one second, but I DO doubt the objectivity of about 99% of the readers that take the time to respond to whatever MV. writes, and I feel like this type of critique only feeds a very tragic fire.

I will be happy to also find what I said (and say) about JH, but it is also irrelevant to my point.

Greg C.
Registered

15 years ago

#13

My point is that my point got missed. Read the commentary in the JS Online or the GBP Gazette... More often than not, it seems like the article wasn't even read by the people posting, but rather is used as a vehicle for the "airing of the grievances". I don't doubt Ironman's objectivity for one second, but I DO doubt the objectivity of about 99% of the readers that take the time to respond to whatever MV. writes, and I feel like this type of critique only feeds a very tragic fire.

I will be happy to also find what I said (and say) about JH, but it is also irrelevant to my point.

"dfosterf" wrote:

I occasionally glance at those comments from readers after the articles, and most of them are ridiculous. Both newspapers could improve their web sites by eliminating reader comments. I doubt very much that the writers let those comments affect what they write, though. The lunatic fringe can never be placated.

blank

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#14

Vandermause only praised the Rodgers decision after it became obvious it was going to pan out well (and the retraction he posted after the season was over was weak, at best). Before the season, he ripped Thompson ceaselessly for choosing Rodgers over Favre, among other decisions. Like most "sports analysts," Vandermause is a lame frontrunner. He'll heap all the team's successes on Thompson one week when the team wins, they blame all their problems on Thompson's decisions the next week when they lose. He doesn't take a season-long perspective.

mi_keys
Senior Member

15 years ago

#15

1.) It was a 5 game slide, not a 7 game slide. I get really annoyed when people get paid to write or talk about sports and they can't get simple facts like this right.

"Greg C." wrote:

I did a double-take on that one too, then I realized what he meant: The Packers slid from 13 wins in 2007 to 6 wins in 2008.

I think this is a pretty accurate breakdown of the major things that went wrong from a GM standpoint. A lot of it is just hindsight, of course, but there are some that looked bad right from the beginning. The decision to cut Jon Ryan is an obvious one. Also, he lowballed Ryan Grant, which might have made sense had he stuck to it, but then he ended up signing Grant to a big contract anyway.

It was a tough year for Ted. I sure hope he has another good run in him. For a couple years there, he was shitting little gold coins.

"mi_keys" wrote:

Ah, well if he did indeed mean it that way than my apologies for correcting him. I also hate it when people correct others who were correct to begin with, lol.

Born and bred a cheesehead

warhawk
Senior Member

15 years ago

#16

If Thompson is guilty of anything it's not going deep enough with the "what if" game and dealing with the scenario of "what if Jenkins goes down and KGB is done?" Now there are other contributing factors such as Harrell not being ready for many games and Jolly not performing at his best either.

The truth is all teams have weak points where if things don't go well in those areas with injuries that team is going to suffer. NO team is so strong and so deep in every segment of the game this won't happen.

IMO our two areas were EXACTLY what happened along the DL and #2 would have been if Arod went down.

To Thompson's credit if a DB or CB got hurt, which they did, that was covered. If a LB went down we were alright. A RB or WR? No big problem. A couple of decent shuffle moves could be made along the OL.

The hammer came down on the nail that happened to seal the coffin holding the cold body of our seasons fate when Jenkins went down and KGB failed to perform.

I look at it this way. It was unfortunate but it can be fixed. Between a new scheme and couple of new faces along the DL I look for way better next year.

"The train is leaving the station."

zombieslayer
Registered

15 years ago

#17

Yet, Vandermause has said over and over again that Thompson made the right decision going with Rodgers. Mike Vandermause is not a Ted basher.

And as far as hindsight goes; several people, including myself, questioned at the time, his decision to draft an injured DT in the 1st round, and his decision to, a week before the regular season, cut Jon Ryan, who's 37.6 net average in 2007, was the best by a Packers punter in 38 years, and then replaces him with a guy that didn't even have a try out. That was a terrible decision. And several people said so at the time of the decision.

"IronMan" wrote:

That's the thing. Yes, several of us did at the time question those 2 moves. I also questioned at the time getting rid of Corey Williams because Ted Thompson had faith in his first round bust of a DT.

So it's not always hindsight.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

15 years ago

#18

Let's get something clear here. Williams was gone no matter what. He was not going to settle for anything less than twice what he was worth. We got something for NOTHING when we made the trade with the Browns.

Even with what happened, I wouldn't have paid him what he's getting now because he is not the player his salary implies he is. He would not have made that much of a difference as some people think he would.

Again, Williams was GONE and we snagged a 2nd rounder for him and then (in my opinion and I feel we need two more years for it to be a 'true' one at that) blew it away on Brohm.

Does anyone remember Williams kneeling down after the Seahawks game and getting emotional as if it he knew it was his last game at Lambeau?

Stop playing the hindsight game and blasting a GM who got something for nothing. Remember this quote? "I wanted out of Green Bay and I'm glad Cleveland called me".

Let's quit the if we had Williams talk because he didn't want to be here, and we were not going to spend the money on him that he wanted. He was not and is not worth the amount he's getting. He produced fairly decent stats because KGB and Kampman took quite a bit of attention and let's not forget having a stout secondary.

I am glad we didn't waste the money on him, but I am not glad we picked up Brohm and we didn't have an insurance plan worth a damn if/when Harrell got injured/flopped.

Sometimes you just don't have the resources to cover every single base. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. We missed on our DL.

all_about_da_packers
Senior Member

15 years ago

#19

Does anyone remember Williams kneeling down after the Seahawks game and getting emotional as if it he knew it was his last game at Lambeau?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I think that was because Williams realized that may, keyword may, have been his last game as a Packer, at Lambeau.

If I remember correctly, when asked about the kneeling down after the Giants (not Seahawks) game at Lambeau, Williams admitted he got emotional realizing it may be the end of the line for him (and probably a little upset at coming so close and losing it like they did).

Let's quit the if we had Williams talk because he didn't want to be here, and we were not going to spend the money on him that he wanted.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Actually, I'm going to say that Williams was pissed because he got franchised. The reason he didn't want to come back was because he felt the Packers were in the wrong limiting his options by franchising him when they clearly stated they wouldn't meet his demands during contract negotiations.

Once again, after the NFC Championship game, Williams said something along the lines of being open to a return to Green Bay (signing a new contract with the team), but realizing that any thing can happen in the business side of things in the NFL.

He was not and is not worth the amount he's getting. He produced fairly decent stats because KGB and Kampman took quite a bit of attention and let's not forget having a stout secondary.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Williams value has to be more than just a pass rusher. Especially in the playoffs last year, he was outstanding at getting penetration and forcing the RB out side, at times even tackling the RB for a loss.

Williams won one on one match-ups, and considering this past year's lack of that his value was important.

I agree with the overpaying part, he deserved good money, but the contract he got was a lot bigger than he deserved.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

MassPackersFan
Member

15 years ago

#20

Well that's the entire purpose of franchising a player - to limit their offers from other teams. It's kind of silly that players keep getting mad about it. Look at New England and Asante Samuel. They clearly weren't going to match the high offers in 2008 after franchising him in '07.

The thing is, Samuel is one of the best CB's in the league when it comes to zone defenses. Hard to say the same thing about C. Williams at DT, as much as I liked the guy. He was definitely demanding far more than he was worth.

I also don't think releasing Corey Williams had anything to do with "relying on a 1st round bust" to replace him. There were plenty of other DT's on the roster, and I assumed it was common knowledge even among those OUTSIDE of the organization that Harrell is a project. Nobody thought he would suddenly emerge in '08 after his '07 injury/surgery history.

Important Information:

The PACKERSHOME uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

dfosterf (3h) : Kidding aside, I hope the best for him.

dfosterf (3h) : Went to a Titans board. One comment there. Not very long. I quote: "LOL" They don't sound overly upset about our aquisition.

beast (3h) : OT Dillard has been absolutely horrible... like OG Newman levels

dfosterf (4h) : Suit him up and have him stand in front of the big board as a draft day cautionary tale.

Zero2Cool (4h) : Packers sign T Andre Dillard.

Mucky Tundra (19h) : Adds most of the information this time of year comes from agents.

Mucky Tundra (19h) : @RealAlexBarth Bill Belichick says accurate draft information doesn't leak from teams until about 12 hours before the draft. Adds most of th

Mucky Tundra (19h) : I am very happy that for moment, Jordan Love seems like a normal human being

Zero2Cool (17-Apr) : Belichick * whatever

Zero2Cool (17-Apr) : "There's a lot of depth at Offensive Tackle and Wide Receiver." Bill Bellichick

Zero2Cool (17-Apr) : Thanks! I can't believe it's over haha

Martha Careful (16-Apr) : Congratulations

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Boom. Student Loan. $0.00. Only took about 20 years.

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : Packers DT Kenny Clark: New defensive coordinator Jeff Hafley will 'allow us to be way more disruptive'

Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : Saints have agreed to terms on a contract with former Packers wide receiver Equanimeous St. Brown.

beast (12-Apr) : No, but of it's for legislation, then half of the country will find it evil, not good, whatever it says....

Mucky Tundra (12-Apr) : Draft is still 2 weeks away. UGH

dhazer (11-Apr) : Does anyone know of a good AI generator to create letters of Support for legislation?

Zero2Cool (11-Apr) : Gordon "Red" Batty retires as equipment manager

Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Sounds like that's pretty certain now.

Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Packers "at" Eagles in Brazil. Week One

dfosterf (10-Apr) : Va' Fazer As Malas Va' !

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy tipping us off?

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : “We’re either the first- or second-most popular team in Brazil.”

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Christian Watson got married. Wife better be careful with those hamstrings!! 😂😂

dfosterf (9-Apr) : Those poor bastards

Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Falcons have signed former Packers CB Kevin King, who has been out of football since 2021.

dfosterf (8-Apr) : Collectively, we need to spend more time in what we have, when analyzing ostendible needs and historical proclivities

dfosterf (8-Apr) : I say he is better than so many of these draft picks

dfosterf (8-Apr) : Question of the week for me: Has anyone besides me done any deep dive into the potential of Alex McGough, our 3rd string qb?

Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Or in Tunsil's case, something gets released day of draft or day before lol

Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Seems every year someone does something pre-draft.

dfosterf (8-Apr) : Falling down drunk. The draft board

dfosterf (8-Apr) : Allright! Potential character guy/f#×k up pickup in D'Vondre Sweat!

Zero2Cool (7-Apr) : Go Badgers!!!

Martha Careful (6-Apr) : Go Boilermakers!!!

Martha Careful (5-Apr) : Diggs has not stepped up in the playoffs and has a high cost

beast (5-Apr) : Probably not going to let Diggs walk away unless he's horrible... but according to reports he also might not be as good as he used to be.

beast (5-Apr) : The 25th pick in the draft has been an offensive player since 2017, 2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 OC

Mucky Tundra (5-Apr) : Odd, why give up a 2025 2nd Rounder for him if you're just gonna let him walk?

Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : Texans to let Diggs be free agent in '25

buckeyepackfan (4-Apr) : 49r's aign RB Patrick Taylor.

Martha Careful (4-Apr) : Reversion to the mean would indicate we will keep it

Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : It's also been utilized in a trade in 14 of the past 20 years

Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : The 25th pick in the draft hasn't been made by it's original holder since 2016.

Mucky Tundra (4-Apr) : Gotta imagine that Green Bay vs Houston will be a primetime game this upcoming season

Zero2Cool (3-Apr) : No. Kill QB. No worries. 😁

Mucky Tundra (3-Apr) : Diggs, Collins, Dell and Schultz is gonna be tough to cover

Zero2Cool (3-Apr) : Stefon Diggs' trade will not be processed as a post-June 1 designation, so that is just over $31 million in dead cap this year.

Zero2Cool (3-Apr) : Bills trading WR Stefon Diggs to the Texans in exchange for a 2025 2nd-round pick. (via @rapsheet)

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2023 Packers Schedule

Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM

Bears

38 - 20

Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM

Falcons

24 - 25

Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM

SAINTS

18 - 17

Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM

LIONS

20 - 34

Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM

Raiders

13 - 17

Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM

Broncos

17 - 19

Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

10 - 24

Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM

RAMS

20 - 3

Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM

Steelers

19 - 23

Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM

CHARGERS

23 - 20

Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM

Lions

29 - 22

Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM

CHIEFS

27 - 19

Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM

Giants

22 - 24

Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM

BUCCANEERS

20 - 34

Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM

Panthers

33 - 30

Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM

Vikings

33 - 10

Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM

BEARS

17 - 9

Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM

Cowboys

48 - 32

Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM

49ers

21 - 24