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Offline uffda udfa  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 10:02:53 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Jimmy Graham has been ruled a TE for purposes of the franchise tag costing him 5.3 million. In order to acquire Graham under tag rules we'd have to offer New Orleans two 1st rounders. Given our brutal history with 1st round draft picks, would you cough up two 1st's for Graham?

That is something I would consider especially given Finley's probable non return and the Packers love affair with TE's. It's great Richard Rodgers looked good in OTA's but there's a gaping hole at that position.

In this slow time of the year hypothetical topic, the signing of Graham would cost you the resigning of Nelson or Cobb.... I'd still do it.

I think we can live without guys like Sherrod, Perry, Harrell, etc for Jimmy Graham and find another WR to replace Jordy or Randall.

My only pause with this hypothetical is Graham will be 28 at midseason. We'd only get one for sure solid contract with him. 6'7 guys who run 4.53 aren't easy to find and nearly impossible with the talent of Jimmy Graham.

It'd have to work out better than Joe Johnson. Rolling Eyes
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Offline nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 10:05:14 AM(UTC)
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I don't think we have a "brutal" record drafting in the first round.

And no, price is WAY too high.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 10:22:32 AM(UTC)
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Over the last two seasons Graham has 21 drops, Finley 11.




Message modified by user Wednesday, July 2, 2014 1:58:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline musccy  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 10:35:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I don't think we have a "brutal" record drafting in the first round.

And no, price is WAY too high.


Agreed. A Rod, Raji, and CM3 were all T.T. 1st rounders.

Two 1sts for one year of one player doesn't add up for me.
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Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 10:35:51 AM(UTC)
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No.. on a couple of fronts.

1. You would have to consume a franchise tag per season on him or overpay him verse the norm for TE's. Seems like it is going to be a headache for the team.. why deal with that?

2. Dreadful in the first round? I disagree.. 2 firsts for him a TE.. with our scheme.. no.

3. I think we sit and watch how this plays out.. if it becomes a problem which it may become.. the price tag for him will decrease. But you will be inheriting problem # 1 regardless.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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thanks Post received 1 applause.
Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
Offline uffda udfa  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 12:10:20 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Agreed. A Rod, Raji, and CM3 were all T.T. 1st rounders.

Two 1sts for one year of one player doesn't add up for me.


Obviously, you're not giving up two 1st's for one year...you'd have a contract agreed to before you ever pulled the trigger. It'd be a multi year deal.

I did laugh when I read we wouldn't want to give up two firsts and Raji was mentioned. The guy had NO interest from anyone. Another wash out first rounder.

As to drop rate, he played with a wrist injury during his terrible drop season. His career drop rate is 9.1%: from Mlive.com:

Drops are the biggest concern with Ebron. According to a RotoWorld study, he put 11.4 percent of his targets on the ground last year. That's a pretty poor percentage, but only slightly worse than the career drop rates of Graham (9.1 percent), Vernon Davis (9.8 percent) and Rob Gronkowski (8.1 percent).

Jimmy would be unreal in our O. Where did we suffer most last year? RED ZONE OFFENSE. We were very poor down there. Enter Jimmy Graham...problem solved. Difference between scoring a TD last year vs. SF in playoffs and kicking FG that led to loss, possibly.

Give me a TRUE STAR in Graham. They gave 8 million to Finley. I'm sure we could work something out with Jimmy.
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Offline musccy  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 12:54:22 PM(UTC)
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Clearly Raji is not the player he once was, but he was a meaningful contributor to the SB season, so I wouldn't call him a disaster either.

As far as Graham, I know he can catch, get TDs, and tear down FG uprights, but can he block? I honestly don't know, I don't follow him that closely, but I'm framing the question that way because I feel it's more of what the Packers need. Especially with the team transitioning to a bigger emphasis in the running game, and with a number of good receiving threats in the backfield and and at WR, do we need to spend big $ at that position as well? We're about to drop a lot of money on Cobb and Nelson to catch the ball, do we need another 8+mil receiving option?
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
Offline uffda udfa  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 1:51:26 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Clearly Raji is not the player he once was, but he was a meaningful contributor to the SB season, so I wouldn't call him a disaster either.

As far as Graham, I know he can catch, get TDs, and tear down FG uprights, but can he block? I honestly don't know, I don't follow him that closely, but I'm framing the question that way because I feel it's more of what the Packers need. Especially with the team transitioning to a bigger emphasis in the running game, and with a number of good receiving threats in the backfield and and at WR, do we need to spend big $ at that position as well? We're about to drop a lot of money on Cobb and Nelson to catch the ball, do we need another 8+mil receiving option?


In my mind, if you sign Graham you are not signing both Nelson and Cobb. Jordy or Randall would be sacrificed for Jimmy. I don't think Graham is much of a blocker... do you really want your superstar WR TE in as a blocker? He's lethal in the passing game. The money is likely there as we ponied up 8 million for Jermichael on a bit of a prove it deal. Graham has proven it and then some so I'm sure we could cough 10-12 million for him at the expense of letting Jordy or Randall go which is a consideration as it is now. We don't know if Randall wants to be a Packer in the same way Jordy seems to. We may not be able to resign him at all and using the tag puts us at around 12 million for one year of Randall.

Yes, two 1st's is a lot to give up, but if we're going to be drafting toward the end of the 1st and with our failure rate, I think that's an acceptable trade off to get a known superstar vs. two potential busts or injury situations. You just never really know. Graham is a known quantity who changes games especially in the red zone where our biggest need on O lies. How is that going to change this season? It likely won't and will be a frustrating thing to watch.

Maybe, the Saints pull the tag and we can send them one first and something else... a player perhaps? Nick Perry? I doubt many, if any, would agree with me, but I believe this is something Ted Thompson would consider. He will make plays for the right kind of player and we just happen to have a major need at TE and in the redzone. Odds are insanely low this would happen, but I bet Ted Thompson sniffs it out a little if things get rocky with Jimmy and the Saints.

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Offline steveishere  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 2:58:02 PM(UTC)
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Between the picks and the money that's a lot of resources invested in 1 player that just seems unnecessary with how good our offense already is. That seems like a move someone would make if they were desperate to get their pass game going and that's really not an issue here.
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dfosterf on 7/2/2014(UTC), Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
Offline OlHoss1884  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 3:20:54 PM(UTC)
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Without Graham I suspect the Packers may have the best offense in the league this year, so no, I would not give up ONE first rounder let alone two. As valuable as he is as an asset, the Packers do not wont for receivers...we need a TE who can block a little, too, which Graham does about as well as I do.

While any team that has him will be the better for it, to me there is no sense in giving up anything valuable for a player who doesn't really fit a true "need".
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
thanks Post received 2 applause.
Zero2Cool on 7/2/2014(UTC), Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 3:46:37 PM(UTC)
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I'd consider giving up a second for him.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
Offline uffda udfa  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 3:52:22 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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How is he not a need? I'm puzzled by that statement. For as good as our O is or can be...it struggles in the red zone. WHY is that going to change this season? What's changed? Subtract Jermichael and James Jones and add two rookies and we're better in the red zone? Pure utter nonsense. I'm as big of a fan as anyone here but to think this offense is going to be unstoppable is laughable as we were plenty stoppable in the redzone vs. better defenses. That will continue to be a problem until it's addressed and it hasn't been. Graham blows the red zone issue out of the water. We're fortunate Crosby was good last year... if he reverts to who he was 2 seasons ago with our red zone issues we're going to lose our fair share of close games due to our red zone woes.

I prefer 7 to a Mason Crosby FG attempt but that's just me and I prefer not to falsely believe that subtracting Finley, Jones and adding a rookie WR and TE is going to fix our redzone issues.
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Offline dhazer  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 5:20:57 PM(UTC)
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I say this is an easy question and the answer is not just no but a huge HELL NO. Why do we lose 2 wrs for a TE and did we forget that we won a Super Bowl with Quarless as our TE?

To me Graham and Gronk are over rated because look at the teams they play on, They don't have any great WRS on the teams, so they are the main targets, thus the big numbers.
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
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Zero2Cool on 7/2/2014(UTC), Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC), play2win on 7/4/2014(UTC)
Offline uffda udfa  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 6:50:11 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
I say this is an easy question and the answer is not just no but a huge HELL NO. Why do we lose 2 wrs for a TE and did we forget that we won a Super Bowl with Quarless as our TE?

To me Graham and Gronk are over rated because look at the teams they play on, They don't have any great WRS on the teams, so they are the main targets, thus the big numbers.


To me that tells me how special Graham is... EVERYONE knows it's going to him and he still produces huge numbers.

How do we lose 2 WR's? We likely lose one...Randall or Jordy.

We won the SB with Zombo at OLB opposite Matthews but we spent a 1st rounder to replace Zombo because it was a need. TE is a major need for this team. Andrew Quarless isn't much. We're used to a threat at TE being on the field.

You may believe it's crazy but I believe Ted Thompson has his eye on this. I say that based on giving Finley 8 million and our fascination with the TE position and having no proven option there.

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Offline mi_keys  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2014 7:12:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
For as good as our O is or can be...it struggles in the red zone. WHY is that going to change this season? What's changed? Subtract Jermichael and James Jones and add two rookies and we're better in the red zone?


Last year was a statistical anomoly for our offense during the Rodgers/McCarthy era. Here are our redzone TD conversion rate rankings since 2008:

2008: 5
2009: 7
2010: 4
2011: 3
2012: 1
2013: 26

We played most of last year without Finley so how much are we really subtracting year over year?

We played two thirds of the year without Cobb. We played half the year without Rodgers. Bulaga and Sherrod are returning from injury. Our other starting tackle from last year has another year experience. Quarless and Bostick improved towards the end of last year. We've brought in 5 rookies at WR/TE I can think of offhand (our 4 draft picks and Lyerla). The first of those draft picks, Adams, was touted for his vertical/high-pointing ability and his hands, two very useful tools in the red zone. Eddie Lacy has another year of experience.

So is it really so inconceivable that we'll do better in the red zone?

As for the proposed trade, absolutely and unequivocally no. The cost is simply way too much.
Born and bred a cheesehead
thanks Post received 3 applause.
StarrMax1 on 7/3/2014(UTC), musccy on 7/3/2014(UTC), Dexter_Sinister on 7/3/2014(UTC)
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