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Offline yooperfan  
#16 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2014 6:25:13 PM(UTC)
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Laughing Laughing
Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Rolling Eyes


Yep that is what I said wasn't it? I said I called Uncle Teddy on his private line and told him CM3 was worth what he gave and and 5 times as much.

I got more than the next 5 pro bowlers but why would I want to give them to you?
Laughing

Offline nerdmann  
#17 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2014 6:42:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Rolling Eyes


Yep that is what I said wasn't it? I said I called Uncle Teddy on his private line and told him CM3 was worth what he gave and and 5 times as much.

I got more than the next 5 pro bowlers but why would I want to give them to you?


In order to prove you know wtf you're talking about.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline wpr  
#18 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2014 6:52:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
In order to prove you know wtf you're talking about.


I don't have to prove squat to you.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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thanks Post received 2 applause.
buckeyepackfan on 4/20/2014(UTC), DoddPower on 4/21/2014(UTC)
Offline mi_keys  
#19 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2014 7:26:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Ted's best pick was trading back into the first the pick up CM3. The players that were taken with GB's picks were Darius Butler, Derek Cox and Brandon Tate. Now if NE selected Jairus Byrd and Mike Wallace instead of Butler andTate maybe we would grade the deal differently. (Cox drafted by Jacksonville in a trade with NE.) This proves what I have been saying for years. Trading up for a stud player is better than trading down to get 2-3 average quality players.


I get what you are saying with a lot of your post but I disagree with this. One instance doesn't prove anything. It's all about the situation and who is available, and trading back doesn't always result in average players.

For example, in 2006 New England traded up with Green Bay in the second round. They took Chad Jackson, a receiver who ended up with 14 career receptions. With the picks we got from New England we ended up with Greg Jennings and Jason Spitz. Yes, Spitz was an average player. But Jennings was a multi-pro bowler and a key piece of our most recent Super Bowl team. He is decidedly well beyond average (except for his career choice decision making ability; that is subpar).

We also traded back for Jordy Nelson.

More good to elite players are found in the earlier rounds; but depending on what your scouting has dug up and what the board shows, your sometimes better off trading back, not just with regards to depth, but even finding top-end NFL players. It varies widely by situation.
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Offline wpr  
#20 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2014 7:46:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mi_keys Go to Quoted Post
I get what you are saying with a lot of your post but I disagree with this. One instance doesn't prove anything. It's all about the situation and who is available, and trading back doesn't always result in average players.

For example, in 2006 New England traded up with Green Bay in the second round. They took Chad Jackson, a receiver who ended up with 14 career receptions. With the picks we got from New England we ended up with Greg Jennings and Jason Spitz. Yes, Spitz was an average player. But Jennings was a multi-pro bowler and a key piece of our most recent Super Bowl team. He is decidedly well beyond average (except for his career choice decision making ability; that is subpar).

We also traded back for Jordy Nelson.

More good to elite players are found in the earlier rounds; but depending on what your scouting has dug up and what the board shows, your sometimes better off trading back, not just with regards to depth, but even finding top-end NFL players. It varies widely by situation.


So I trust in Uncle Teddy's crew more than other team's draft teams is that a crime? Naturally I am speaking in general terms. Even the great Uncle Teddy can fail when he is working a trade. Thing is people don't get as excited if he were to trade down than to trade up and it not work out. You have more picks so if the 3rd round pick is a bust and the 5th round pick is great many people would tend to give him a pass. They would over look the fact that he could have still had the pick without the trade.
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Offline mi_keys  
#21 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2014 9:05:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
So I trust in Uncle Teddy's crew more than other team's draft teams is that a crime? Naturally I am speaking in general terms. Even the great Uncle Teddy can fail when he is working a trade. Thing is people don't get as excited if he were to trade down than to trade up and it not work out. You have more picks so if the 3rd round pick is a bust and the 5th round pick is great many people would tend to give him a pass. They would over look the fact that he could have still had the pick without the trade.


No, not a crime. I trust Uncle Teddy's crew more than most other teams too (you'd be daft not to, considering the level of success they've had).

To your point about the scenario regarding trading back for a 3rd and a 5th; why shouldn't that be a pass? If you stay pat and pick a great player or move back for two picks yielding one great player and one bust, it's the same end result. That goes along the lines of what I was talking about with trading back for Jennings or Nelson.

Look, with our roster right now, we should probably lean towards looking to move up; but only if the situation falls right where our guy is sitting there and we can negotiate the trade without getting screwed in the process (see Washington move up for RGIII). I believe you've more or less said as much.

The short of it, is that I'm disagreeing with trading up or trading back being inherently better than the other. The draft is very fluid and in any given year--based on team needs, your team's draft board and how other teams are acting in the draft--should determine whether the trade up, trade back or stand pat is the right move.
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Offline play2win  
#22 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 5:38:40 AM(UTC)
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I've been riding the fence on trade up or down. Jerel Worthy was a trade up that didn't work out too well thus far. CMlll was a great move. I guess, I'm just trusting this staff will do what they think is best, with the best info money can buy, or close to.
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 5:55:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
Actually, it depends on your situation. Trading away picks to move up helps your starting team at the expense of your depth.

Mike Sherman was a poster boy for the former (trading up), and Ted Thompson is a poster boy for the latter (trading down for additional picks).

Sherman left us depleted--as long as our starters were healthy, we were OK, but the minute somebody got injured there was a big drop off to their replacement. It also relied on him hitting a larger percentage of his picks, since he had fewer picks overall.

Thompson's approach was exactly what we needed after Sherman. The additional picks allowed us to regain depth quicker.

But once you have good depth again, you can afford some trading up to improve your starters. Which is where Thompson has impressed me the most--he adjusted his normal approach to trade up and take CM3 because of his player evaluation, and hit a home run.

Overall, I've been impressed with Thompson--he's kept us toward the top of the NFL, got us a Super Bowl championship, and had us surviving the loss of Aaron Rodgers to make the playoffs. He's had a few misses, but that's the nature of the beast--it's going to happen.


Wow macbob, fantastic post.

Yeah, all GMs make mistakes. I am very happy with what Ted has done in drafting for the most part. I'm just hoping he raises the bar this year, as we will need a very good draft. We've got some ground to make up on some of these teams, and that's what could really help us get over the hump.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
luigis on 4/21/2014(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#24 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 7:08:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I don't have to prove squat to you.


Nor can you.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 7:09:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Wow macbob, fantastic post.

Yeah, all GMs make mistakes. I am very happy with what Ted has done in drafting for the most part. I'm just hoping he raises the bar this year, as we will need a very good draft. We've got some ground to make up on some of these teams, and that's what could really help us get over the hump.


We could certainly use help in some spots, but the biggest issue facing this team is injuries.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline wpr  
#26 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 8:20:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Nor can you.


True.

I know what I think and why so the only reason I would not be able to tell you is due to your lack on comprehension.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
mi_keys on 4/21/2014(UTC)
Offline luigis  
#27 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 11:34:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Wow macbob, fantastic post.

Yeah, all GMs make mistakes. I am very happy with what Ted has done in drafting for the most part. I'm just hoping he raises the bar this year, as we will need a very good draft. We've got some ground to make up on some of these teams, and that's what could really help us get over the hump.


I think Ted is in the top-10 of drafters, he has had his hits and misses like everybody.

I'm not in the war room on draft date but I believe the way the draft flows is a critical factor in how it results for any team. The year of the Harrell pick I think something went really wrong.

Lacy's pick was an example of a draft that flowed really really well, if you knew how good Eddie was then it was actually tempting to pick him in the first round, Ted stood put and whatever the calculations were they were right as we could grab Lacy anyway. I was really nervous and I would have either reached for him in the first round or panicked and traded up to get him sooner than our 2nd pick.



Luis
thanks Post received 2 applause.
play2win on 4/21/2014(UTC), macbob on 4/22/2014(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#28 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 11:40:23 AM(UTC)
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How are we defining "Best"?

Best as in best value, or best as in best player regardless of overall selection?

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Offline warhawk  
#29 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 11:42:17 AM(UTC)
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I guess depth is extremely underrated but not to me.

IMO this team has several very good football players. There are also several steady players that are good quality starters. There are a few decent players that can step in and do a decent job.

If you don't have depth your screwed.

I see a lot of teams that at the onset of the season they have a very strong starting lineup but are rail thin below that. It's only a matter of time when guys start going down and the quality of play drops way off.

I actually thought the Bears starting 22 last year was probably stronger overall than ours BUT they were very thin behind that group. Maybe why the Bears always seem to come out of the blocks well only to fall on their face later?

I EXPECT 1st and 2nd round picks to become good quality starters and if you can add better quality depth later in the draft it's a home run.

The biggest problem this team has faced is all the injuries to 1st round players. I mean Bulaga, Sherrod, Perry, Mathews, and Rodgers all out and all out for significant periods of time.

For a draft and develop team these ARE our high priced FA alternatives. A team couldn't put this many high end FA's on the team all in one year but if they could and every one of them went down with injury how well you think they could do?

8-8-1? I would say not a chance.
"The train is leaving the station."
thanks Post received 1 applause.
play2win on 4/21/2014(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#30 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 2:38:40 PM(UTC)
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I actually agree with the ranking best to worst:

Rodgers
Matthews
Raji
Hawk
Bulaga
Perry
Jones
Sherrod
Harrell

And, while being a 2nd rounder in a trade down, Jordy Nelson has been right up there with Rodgers as one of our most consistent, effective players. One of my favs.

I can see Raji and Hawk as a tie for 3rd.

Man, was I pissed when he took Harrell. Also was very surprised at the time of all the Bulaga, Perry, Sherrod and Jones picks. I really did not want or see any of those being the pick, from my play2win war room! (Disclaimer:idks) However, was pretty happy with them all after the fact. Hoping they all show well this season.
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