DoddPower
10 years ago

Could also be pre-draft disinfo.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Yeah, there's no real reason to believe any of this.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

I'm going to start being mean to TexasPackerBacker if we resign Raji; Buckeye too! I swear to God, I'll blow a gasket if that happens.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Did you mistype that - meaning to say "stop" instead of "start"? It's kinda like a mosquito bite on my ass whenever you post hahahaha.

I think you and I are the top two detractors in here regarding Raji and Pickett - which is saying a lot, since they are so widely hated.

Finally one of the talking heads is putting it into print what I have been saying for a long time now - Daniels, Worthy, and D. Jones, with Boyd and Jolly also in the rotation, would amount to a very decent D Line. I question whether that would represent a change in Capers type personnel, as I recall when he was with other teams, he generally had athletic LBs with big clods in the line acting almost like O Linemen for the LBs. Whatever about that - I like it a lot better having D Linemen who actually can function on their own.


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
beast
10 years ago

It makes no sense at all considering Dom has talked about how much he likes the big bodies along the d-line and has used the bigger guys so often even though our most successful guys have been the smaller faster ones for the most part. It seems like Dom has no clue what he wants at that position.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I think a lot of people are missing the context that the DL have been used differently. The big bodies have been more often been askd to control the OL, not let there be running gaps on the inside and pass rush less. While the smaller guys have been asked to pass rush more, try to control the OL less and running game less. So what they were being asked to do was some what different and so their over all goals aren't the same. Those big guys could of been very successful and most wouldn't noticed as they were being asked to do the dirty works which rarely gets notice.

Example, everyone seems to remember Clay Matthews fumble in the Super Bowl...but how did he get that shot at the RB like that? Pickett pushed the OL backwards and he took away the inside run forcing him to outside and they basically sandwiched the RB. But that was one of the more clear cases of it... it happens a lot more in less clear cases where those big guys are successful in what they were asked to do (the dirty work) and fans are complaining that they aren't successful.


But a lot of those big bodies are in FA... so this might be the right time to get away from them some and ask the DL to do more pass rushing and less of the dirty work, and LBers more of the dirty work and less of the rushing.
UserPostedImage
beast
10 years ago

I like it a lot better having D Linemen who actually can function on their own.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You seems to like it when all the non-coverage guys have the same role... get to the ball ASAP and don't worry about anything else. You would probably really like Cover 2 and Tampa 2 style then.


I agree with you that it would probably be nice having DL being allowed to be more aggressive... it's easier to read how well the players are doing. Then clogging/protecting and stuff and more exciting... though they'll have to get better against the run.


UserPostedImage
steveishere
10 years ago

I think a lot of people are missing the context that the DL have been used differently. The big bodies have been more often been askd to control the OL, not let there be running gaps on the inside and pass rush less. While the smaller guys have been asked to pass rush more, try to control the OL less and running game less. So what they were being asked to do was some what different and so their over all goals aren't the same. Those big guys could of been very successful and most wouldn't noticed as they were being asked to do the dirty works which rarely gets notice.

Example, everyone seems to remember Clay Matthews fumble in the Super Bowl...but how did he get that shot at the RB like that? Pickett pushed the OL backwards and he took away the inside run forcing him to outside and they basically sandwiched the RB. But that was one of the more clear cases of it... it happens a lot more in less clear cases where those big guys are successful in what they were asked to do (the dirty work) and fans are complaining that they aren't successful.


But a lot of those big bodies are in FA... so this might be the right time to get away from them some and ask the DL to do more pass rushing and less of the dirty work, and LBers more of the dirty work and less of the rushing.

Originally Posted by: beast 



The problem with our big guys lately though is they don't get that penetration and cause any disruption. They engage the o-lineman and then stay in 1 place while there are still running gaps to either side of them. They don't disengage and disrupt they play all they do is simply take on the 1 blocker in front of them. I've always liked the phrase "disruption is production". There isn't a stat for simply screwing up the play but it's a great thing to do. I don't necessarily need to see more tackles/sacks from the d-line but I would certainly like to see less standing there hand fighting at or beyond the LOS.

I don't really believe that their job has just been to stand there at the LOS and play patty cake without trying to cause any other disruption. If that's the case then we may as well ditch the base scheme all together.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
Until last year, Pickett consistently occupied two blockers and performed the messing-things-up role as well as anyone. Last year, alas, he showed his age. I'd like to think he was slowed by some injuries, but the reality likely is that he's on the downside and is now just a guy. But until 2013 he was a stud, IMO.

Raji, on the other hand....don't get me going. To me he had 2 thirds of seasons that were good. The last third of 2010 and the first third of 2013. The rest of his tenure he's been average or less.

Great personality, but just not as good as one expects from a first rounder. Or, for most of his tenure in GB, a fifth rounder.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
nerdmann
10 years ago

Until last year, Pickett consistently occupied two blockers and performed the messing-things-up role as well as anyone. Last year, alas, he showed his age. I'd like to think he was slowed by some injuries, but the reality likely is that he's on the downside and is now just a guy. But until 2013 he was a stud, IMO.

Raji, on the other hand....don't get me going. To me he had 2 thirds of seasons that were good. The last third of 2010 and the first third of 2013. The rest of his tenure he's been average or less.

Great personality, but just not as good as one expects from a first rounder. Or, for most of his tenure in GB, a fifth rounder.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Problem is, we as fans have no idea how healthy he was or wasn't.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

You seems to like it when all the non-coverage guys have the same role... get to the ball ASAP and don't worry about anything else. You would probably really like Cover 2 and Tampa 2 style then.


I agree with you that it would probably be nice having DL being allowed to be more aggressive... it's easier to read how well the players are doing. Then clogging/protecting and stuff and more exciting... though they'll have to get better against the run.

Originally Posted by: beast 



As they say in military intelligence, it ain't so much about intent; It's about capability. Having the big fatties doing that clogging/protecting stuff basically put all the pressure on the LBs. Matthews even when he wasn't hurt got double teamed because the damn fatties weren't capable of doing the protecting of his lanes to pass rush, and whoever played opposite of Matthews generally didn't even need to be double teamed. Similarly, on runs, the fat fools in the D-Line couldn't even eat up blockers to allow our ILBs to stop people for short or no gains. Unless you have Donterrio Poe or somebody like that, and LBs like the Niners, you are better off with a front seven that is ALL moderately capable of making plays.

I don't see what that has to do with Cover Two v Man Coverage, as the back 4 or 5 has less pressure on them either way if the front seven has decent capability.


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
beast
10 years ago

The problem with our big guys lately though is they don't get that penetration and cause any disruption. They engage the o-lineman and then stay in 1 place while there are still running gaps to either side of them. They don't disengage and disrupt they play all they do is simply take on the 1 blocker in front of them. I've always liked the phrase "disruption is production". There isn't a stat for simply screwing up the play but it's a great thing to do. I don't necessarily need to see more tackles/sacks from the d-line but I would certainly like to see less standing there hand fighting at or beyond the LOS.

I don't really believe that their job has just been to stand there at the LOS and play patty cake without trying to cause any other disruption. If that's the case then we may as well ditch the base scheme all together.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



You can disrupt with out penetrating, like Pickett, he was great at disrupting by going side to side, east and west, while he struggled to penetrate.

Until last year, Pickett consistently occupied two blockers and performed the messing-things-up role as well as anyone. Last year, alas, he showed his age. I'd like to think he was slowed by some injuries, but the reality likely is that he's on the downside and is now just a guy. But until 2013 he was a stud, IMO.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I COMPETELY AGREE!!! ... though Pickett was on the injury report some and so it could of been injuries, but we can't tell for sure from the outside.



UserPostedImage
beast
10 years ago

As they say in military intelligence, it ain't so much about intent; It's about capability. Having the big fatties doing that clogging/protecting stuff basically put all the pressure on the LBs. Matthews even when he wasn't hurt got double teamed because the damn fatties weren't capable of doing the protecting of his lanes to pass rush, and whoever played opposite of Matthews generally didn't even need to be double teamed. Similarly, on runs, the fat fools in the D-Line couldn't even eat up blockers to allow our ILBs to stop people for short or no gains. Unless you have Donterrio Poe or somebody like that, and LBs like the Niners, you are better off with a front seven that is ALL moderately capable of making plays.

I don't see what that has to do with Cover Two v Man Coverage, as the back 4 or 5 has less pressure on them either way if the front seven has decent capability.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You just blindly throwing blame around now... of course the best passer is going to get doubled team. It's call chip blocking when a TE, FB or RB chip in to help... that has NOTHING to do with the big fatties job. They're not suppose to cover the light guys until the ball is in their hand (which it wasn't when they were chip blocking Matthews). Teams scheme their offense to slow Matthews down... there really is nothing they can do about it other than get a pass rusher that's better than him to take attention off of him.


People just don't get understand or care about the dirty work inside linemen are asked to do... 😞

UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (2h) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
Zero2Cool (3h) : They do not do it for "content sake".
dfosterf (13h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (20h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (21h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (21h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.