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Offline Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 6:54:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
We've been over this enough haven't we?


Certainly not because who has yet come up with a plausible answer that facilitates discussion towards a solution or resolution? Have you created such comment? No. Thus, we have not gone over it enough.

However, feel free to start another topic on another issue. We're waiting.



Meanwhile, the blame for the defense solely rests on Ted Thompson. I'm tired of the injuries excuse. Bring in men who are not soft and weak. Bring in men who can play hurt instead of whining about a damn thumb injury. Man up or go play baseball.

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luigis on 1/20/2014(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 7:06:01 AM(UTC)
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The stupid part of this entire discussion is the implied premise that one person or aspect of this team is at fault.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Ted. Mike. Dom. Lovat. Nearly every position coach on D. Saying it is one or the other misses the real mark.
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wpr on 1/20/2014(UTC)
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 7:37:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Certainly not because who has yet come up with a plausible answer that facilitates discussion towards a solution or resolution? Have you created such comment? No. Thus, we have not gone over it enough.

However, feel free to start another topic on another issue. We're waiting.



Meanwhile, the blame for the defense solely rests on Ted Thompson. I'm tired of the injuries excuse. Bring in men who are not soft and weak. Bring in men who can play hurt instead of whining about a damn thumb injury. Man up or go play baseball.


There's only so many AJ Hawks out there, they are hard to find, that's why when a GM gets ahold of one, he keeps them as long as he can.

Big Grin

I don't want to see The Packers organization turning into one like say The Browns, every few years(or sooner), there is a new GM and/or a new HC.

Veteran players look around, when they have a chance they want to go to a successful franchise that is stable from top to bottom.

The Packers are that right now, I guess the only problem is that our GM doesn't go after those same free Agents who might want to play in Green Bay.

2014 is a new year, may be some surprises, if not, The Packers are still pretty well stocked if guys don't go down with season endng injuries.
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wpr on 1/20/2014(UTC)
Offline luigis  
#19 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 8:34:10 AM(UTC)
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As much as I love the picks of Lacy and Bakthiari I think the biggest problem we had in defense this season was the Datone Jones pick.
Getting a starter and solid player with ou first round pick is critical in the way of our team.

I'm not qualified to judge how bad this pick was but considering the players available and the needs our team had I believe this was a catastrophic mistake.
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Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 9:23:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: luigis Go to Quoted Post
As much as I love the picks of Lacy and Bakthiari I think the biggest problem we had in defense this season was the Datone Jones pick.
Getting a starter and solid player with ou first round pick is critical in the way of our team.

I'm not qualified to judge how bad this pick was but considering the players available and the needs our team had I believe this was a catastrophic mistake.


I personally HATED the pick at the time. I'm on record as having stated that.

But I'm not giving up on the dude. I don't think he "fits" the system, but they apparently like what they see. I am reserving judgement until I see him healthy.

According to the team, he sprained his ankle in the first preseason game. If you'll recall, he had what he calls a "kill shot" on the QB, and the OL tripped him. So if the team is reporting "sprained ankle," it's probably a compound fracture for all we know. I'm not gonna get down on the guy for playing with a compound fracture.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#21 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 10:10:04 AM(UTC)
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I am not big on blame. Doesn't really matter what we think anyway.

Smith, Bowman, Willis, Brooks.

Neal, Jones, Hawk, Perry.

There's a good chance that none of our starting LB's from the playoff game would even make the 49er's roster. Perry would be the likely possibility, based solely on his talent being good enough to warrant a 1st rd pick.

McDonald, Dorsey, Smith

Pickett, Raji, Daniels

Same story. See the disruption/ penetration from the DL against Seattle?

Reid, Whitner.

Burnett, Anybody.

Same story. Their safeties made some plays. At the line and in the backfield. Gave some up also, but so do ours.

Rogers, Brown, Brock, Wright

Williams, Shields, Hyde and House.

Ok. Packers win this area. Our CB's are a pretty special group.

But to compare lineups, the 49er's are a more talented group in 3 of 4 areas. Dramatically so in 2, LB and Safety.

Many wish to fire Capers. But let's pretend and try swapping Capers and 49ers DC Fangio. Who do you think would have the better D? I think Capers would have the best D handsdown. Better players= Better D.
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play2win on 1/20/2014(UTC), DakotaT on 1/20/2014(UTC), texaspackerbacker on 1/25/2014(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#22 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 11:15:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
I am not big on blame. Doesn't really matter what we think anyway.

Smith, Bowman, Willis, Brooks.

Neal, Jones, Hawk, Perry.

There's a good chance that none of our starting LB's from the playoff game would even make the 49er's roster. Perry would be the likely possibility, based solely on his talent being good enough to warrant a 1st rd pick.

McDonald, Dorsey, Smith

Pickett, Raji, Daniels

Same story. See the disruption/ penetration from the DL against Seattle?

Reid, Whitner.

Burnett, Anybody.

Same story. Their safeties made some plays. At the line and in the backfield. Gave some up also, but so do ours.

Rogers, Brown, Brock, Wright

Williams, Shields, Hyde and House.

Ok. Packers win this area. Our CB's are a pretty special group.

But to compare lineups, the 49er's are a more talented group in 3 of 4 areas. Dramatically so in 2, LB and Safety.

Many wish to fire Capers. But let's pretend and try swapping Capers and 49ers DC Fangio. Who do you think would have the better D? I think Capers would have the best D handsdown. Better players= Better D.


It is a real selling point in the argument QCHuskerFan. I agree with you 100%.

For instance, I like to think how dramatically our defense would change with the additions of Jairus Byrd and Brian Orakpo… a healthy Nick Perry and Clay Matthews. Maybe adding a top MLB in the draft. I bet Dom Capers could do quite a lot of good with that kind of talent on his defense. Talent that has been missing for years, either through injury, or personnel mismanagement.

I'm going to throw one other thing out there, because I'd like to know what others here think: Nate McMillian. What the hell happened to him? He showed some promise as a rookie, nabbed a couple of picks and hit hard. His second season was a turbo flush down the toilet. I always thought he was at the very least better than MD Jennings. I wonder what the real story is behind his cutting in mid season.

On this point, I wonder if Capers is too stuck in his ways. He considered Jennings to be a veteran player. Jennings sucked. At least McMillian showed some promise last season. With Safety being such an important position, how did Capers let this position go so horribly wrong? We all saw the same kind of philosophy in play with Datone Jones, who got just 16 snaps in our final 3 games combined! He only averaged a little over 14 snaps per game. Never once saw more than 23 in a game, and rarely played in our 3-4! If these guys don't play, they don't learn with real game experience, they don't develop. How is he supposed to develop as a 3-4 DE when you don't play him there?

This, to me, is the crux of the biscuit when it comes to Green Bay's problems on defense. Dom Capers will play lesser talents, with less upside, simply because they are more veteran to his system. That goes against the "draft and develop" philosophy this team is built on under Ted Thompson. In this regard, I think Dom Capers can and should be called out. I think he needs to make some very big changes in the manner in which he handles our players, or he should be out.

Under your scenario, QCHuskerFan, of swapping out DCs, would Fangio do a better job of developing our talent? Would he put our current players in better positions, allow them better opportunities for success? I think he might. It would be interesting to see what another DC might do with what Dom has had to work with, and how he would adjust his surrounding staff.

Two more resounding pieces of the puzzle in player development failures are B J Raji and Morgan Burnett. We could add Davon House as a third. WTF Dom? In this, I do believe he does deserve blame. Epic failures in developing his players.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#23 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 3:31:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post

Two more resounding pieces of the puzzle in player development failures are B J Raji and Morgan Burnett. We could add Davon House as a third. WTF Dom? In this, I do believe he does deserve blame. Epic failures in developing his players.


I don't think your examples of player development failure are a fair analogy. Certainly none of them are 'epic'.

Raji- Best year was rookie year. 1st rd pick so he knew he wasn't going anywhere. Anybody ever worked with an Owner's child in a business? I see Raji as lazy and unmotivated. There is not always a magic coaching button for this.

Burnett- If we had been polled last year at this time, Burnett wouldn't have been an example for you. He improved tremendously over his first 3 years. He was looked to as one of the real playmakers on the D going into 2014. Then this year happened. We may never know how much his injury set him back or if the lack of talent around him destroyed his year. But he has certainly developed positively since year 1.

House- Ok. He's not Richard Sherman. But his tackles have gone up over the last 3 years. Passes defensed has gone up. He has become a reliable and good special teamer. He's not a lock down CB. But pretty decent performance for a 4th rd pick.

Examples you might use for Dom's failures would be Guy, McMillian, Wilson, and Neal. But for every failure, you have a success like Shields, Hayward, Daniels, Lattimore, and Tramon Williams.

I believe our coaching staff has as many successes as failures. And all staffs have some 'failures'. Where our staff is challenged is health.
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Offline steveishere  
#24 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 3:55:18 PM(UTC)
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The thing I don't get about Burnett is for like 3 games after he came back from his injury he was playing well and was an obvious boost for the defense. Then starting around the Minnesota game he just fell apart for the rest of the year. If anyone has the ability to watch any games watch him against Baltimore. If we had that Burnett all year he would have had a great season.
Offline nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 6:13:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
The thing I don't get about Burnett is for like 3 games after he came back from his injury he was playing well and was an obvious boost for the defense. Then starting around the Minnesota game he just fell apart for the rest of the year. If anyone has the ability to watch any games watch him against Baltimore. If we had that Burnett all year he would have had a great season.


I honestly think he's having to cover for mistakes made by others.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:07:50 PM(UTC)
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texaspackerbacker on 1/25/2014(UTC)
Offline 68md  
#27 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 8:18:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post



Dick L is not going to give you an objective opinion on Capers.. in fact that whole article was a fluff piece praising Capers.


All of you ask yourself this..... has our defense been good enough to win a super bowl the last 2 years ?

If the answer is no then you would think that some major changes take place and yet MM/TT more or less stay staus quo Think

If Mike McCarthy team goal is to win a SB yet you know your defense isn't good enough to do so something is very very wrong from the top down. Two Cents
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wpr on 1/26/2014(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#28 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 8:27:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 68md Go to Quoted Post
Dick L is not going to give you an objective opinion on Capers.. in fact that whole article was a fluff piece praising Capers.


All of you ask yourself this..... has our defense been good enough to win a super bowl the last 2 years ?

If the answer is no then you would think that some major changes take place and yet MM/TT more or less stay staus quo Think

If Mike McCarthy team goal is to win a SB yet you know your defense isn't good enough to do so something is very very wrong from the top down. Two Cents


There has been nothing but Capers defending puff pieces and Ted Blame since we as fans started calling Dom out. The media form a circle around Dom like the mainstream press did around Bush during the Iraq War.

That's what the rest of us are for. Engaging in free speech.
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Online texaspackerbacker  
#29 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 8:48:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
There has been nothing but Capers defending puff pieces and Ted Blame since we as fans started calling Dom out. The media form a circle around Dom like the mainstream press did around Bush during the Iraq War.

That's what the rest of us are for. Engaging in free speech.


I'll leave the politics alone, since you wimped out of those discussions a long time ago, but on the football side:

As Husker's post above illustrates, the Packers D personnel stacks up poorly with the Niners. You could do a similar comparison with virtually all of the contending teams a some of the lesser ones, and it would come out the same. THAT is what Ted has provided for Capers to work with. And as I've said MANY times, we would really be S.O.L. if we had to play teams straight up with plain vanilla D. Capers schemes have at least partially compensated for the talent deficit.

As for the media, it seems that they are just waking up to Thompson's GM deficiencies as a result of exposure when Rodgers was out. Really, though, this poor D thing has been coming on for years.
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Offline DakotaT  
#30 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:00:22 AM(UTC)
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Our defense needs to replace its lazy turd, old declining guy, and piece of dog shit that we trot out their and pass them off as capable starters in this league. The other 8 players are capable defenders. Out of the 8, you have 2 legitimate All Pro players albeit one of them is a free agent. Our defenses problem has more to do with gaping holes than it does anything else.
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