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Offline play2win  
#61 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:15:34 AM(UTC)
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Clay Matthews would make an awesome WILL LB in a 4-3. The playmaker. The Claymaker. He has all the versatility you look for in a WILL. Coverage. Pass Rush. Run Stop. Seek and Destroy.
Offline DoddPower  
#62 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:40:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
yes we are aware if you read my earlier post I said I want 4 fattys that will clog the middle of the line and collapse the pocket into the QBs lap not allowing him the time or the place in which to step up and make a throw.


I suppose a defensive line of Jolly, Raji, Pickett, and Wilson would hold the point of attack and "clog the middle" pretty well, but I don't they would really collapse the pocket much. That's not really their game, especially Jolly, Wilson, and Pickett. If that was the case, they'd all be better pass rushers. Raji certainly has the talent to push the pocket, at times, but is far too inconsistent to be relied upon. Jolly and Wilson may get a little push, occasionally, but overall they are just too slow and most offensive linemen could at least hold their ground against them, even if they can't really drive them back in the running game.

As I said, I think the end result of a combination of bigger offensive linemen would just result in even less pass rush than the Packers have. Dom has ran a 5 defensive line package in the past on obvious rushing downs, and it wasn't very effective, either.

In my opinion, the best thing for the Packers pass rush is to get Mathews and Perry close to healthy and for Daniels, Jones, and possibly Worthy to continue to develop. I'm all for trying different things though, so I'd love to see Dom give the big guys a chance, but I think there's a good reason why he doesn't. Ultimately, the Packers just need Rodgers back so that they can score more points, force teams into mostly passing, and then give CM3, Perry, Daniels, Jones, Raji, Neal, et al. as many chances as possible to rush the QB. I think the Packers would be in the top 15 or possibly even top 10 in sacks if that was the case.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#63 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:13:37 PM(UTC)
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We don't need no F'in fatties. By next season, we need Pickett to retire, Raji to sign with somebody else; Jolly to be NT in the base with Boyd maybe apprenticing at NT, with Daniels and D. Jones at the DE positions.

In passing situations, we need Daniels at NT with D. Jones and Neal either standing or in three-point, along with the 3-4 best LBs we can put on the field - Matthews and 2-3 question marks at this point, along with 4-5 DBs.

In extreme passing situations, take out Neal and/or 1-2 of the LBs, and use 5-6 DBs.

Have as many as 6 of those in any of the above situations positioned to rush the passer as needed.

We don't need to go to a base 4-3, and we don't need to get rid of Capers and his blitz packages.
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Offline wpr  
#64 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:10:59 PM(UTC)
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yeah let's stick a few 215 pound guys on the line and see how well they do. Rolling Eyes

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Offline DoddPower  
#65 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:11:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Clay Matthews would make an awesome WILL LB in a 4-3. The playmaker. The Claymaker. He has all the versatility you look for in a WILL. Coverage. Pass Rush. Run Stop. Seek and Destroy.


I have always wondered why Capers doesn't give guys more chances to rush with their hands in the dirt. On obvious pass rushing situations, why not? Guys like Nick Perry and Mike Neal were very effective in college at doing that, but Capers almost never allows it to happen. I sometimes think Capers tries to fit players completely into his system rather than maximizing what talent players already have. In some ways, Capers is great at utilizing some talents (such as Charles Woodson), but not so much with others. I always thought it would make the most sense to let guys like Nick Perry focus on rushing the passer as a top priority, and then develop the all-around 3-4 line backer skills in time.

Perhaps players like Neal and Perry wouldn't be any more effective rushing the passer like they did in college than they are in Capers 3-4 system, but it is somewhat frustrating to not see them get a chance to prove it in games. I couldn't care less what "system" a team runs, I just want the defense to be effective. And a lot of that begins with an effective pass rush.
Offline nerdmann  
#66 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:36:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
I have always wondered why Capers doesn't give guys more chances to rush with their hands in the dirt. On obvious pass rushing situations, why not? Guys like Nick Perry and Mike Neal were very effective in college at doing that, but Capers almost never allows it to happen. I sometimes think Capers tries to fit players completely into his system rather than maximizing what talent players already have. In some ways, Capers is great at utilizing some talents (such as Charles Woodson), but not so much with others. I always thought it would make the most sense to let guys like Nick Perry focus on rushing the passer as a top priority, and then develop the all-around 3-4 line backer skills in time.

Perhaps players like Neal and Perry wouldn't be any more effective rushing the passer like they did in college than they are in Capers 3-4 system, but it is somewhat frustrating to not see them get a chance to prove it in games. I couldn't care less what "system" a team runs, I just want the defense to be effective. And a lot of that begins with an effective pass rush.


They have 4-3 personnel. Then they go and draft a 285 lb DE, for their 3-4.

lol
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Offline steveishere  
#67 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:57:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
They have 4-3 personnel. Then they go and draft a 285 lb DE, for their 3-4.

lol


Same size as JJ Watt and Justin Smith... lol
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 11/13/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#68 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:34:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
I suppose a defensive line of Jolly, Raji, Pickett, and Wilson would hold the point of attack and "clog the middle" pretty well, but I don't they would really collapse the pocket much. That's not really their game, especially Jolly, Wilson, and Pickett. If that was the case, they'd all be better pass rushers. Raji certainly has the talent to push the pocket, at times, but is far too inconsistent to be relied upon. Jolly and Wilson may get a little push, occasionally, but overall they are just too slow and most offensive linemen could at least hold their ground against them, even if they can't really drive them back in the running game.

As I said, I think the end result of a combination of bigger offensive linemen would just result in even less pass rush than the Packers have. Dom has ran a 5 defensive line package in the past on obvious rushing downs, and it wasn't very effective, either.

In my opinion, the best thing for the Packers pass rush is to get Mathews and Perry close to healthy and for Daniels, Jones, and possibly Worthy to continue to develop. I'm all for trying different things though, so I'd love to see Dom give the big guys a chance, but I think there's a good reason why he doesn't. Ultimately, the Packers just need Rodgers back so that they can score more points, force teams into mostly passing, and then give CM3, Perry, Daniels, Jones, Raji, Neal, et al. as many chances as possible to rush the QB. I think the Packers would be in the top 15 or possibly even top 10 in sacks if that was the case.


We currently rank #11 in sacks in the NFL.
http://www.nfl.com/stats...fied=false&Submit=Go

AJ Hawk, MD Jennings, Brad Jones, Tramon Williams, Davon House, and Micah Hyde account for 9.5 of the 27 sacks registered by the Packers. Our secondary players account for 5.5 of those, led by Tramon with 2.5.

We've only had one sack from Neal and one from Jolly. 3 from Perry. 5 from Clay. Lattimore has a couple.

Datone looks to be coming on with 3. Daniels leads the DL with 4.5. Raji, Pick and Wilson 0s.

Seems like if they made getting to the QB more of a priority, we could really make some good things happen on the back end of our D by creating more INT opportunities. Something has to give here with regards to getting more pressure on the QB if we are to save this season. Hopefully, that happens in our front 7. Even better if we can accomplish that on the DL, who has accounted for just 8.5 of our 27 sacks.

http://www.packers.com/team/statistics.html
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 11/13/2013(UTC)
Offline warhawk  
#69 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:35:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
We don't need no F'in fatties. By next season, we need Pickett to retire, Raji to sign with somebody else; Jolly to be NT in the base with Boyd maybe apprenticing at NT, with Daniels and D. Jones at the DE positions.

In passing situations, we need Daniels at NT with D. Jones and Neal either standing or in three-point, along with the 3-4 best LBs we can put on the field - Matthews and 2-3 question marks at this point, along with 4-5 DBs.

In extreme passing situations, take out Neal and/or 1-2 of the LBs, and use 5-6 DBs.

Have as many as 6 of those in any of the above situations positioned to rush the passer as needed.

We don't need to go to a base 4-3, and we don't need to get rid of Capers and his blitz packages.


I agree. What I don't like to see however, is our CB's that can cover releasing WR's to the DB's that do not pick them up and can't find the ball.
The big problem right now is that the pressure is not there without a healthy CM3 or Perry. If we had those guys out there at full strength it would make a huge difference. You add Daniels, Jones, and maybe another LB or CB at times and the QB starts hitting the dirt a whole lot more often.
Right now we don't have the five guys in there when they need them to get the QB off their game.

"The train is leaving the station."
thanks Post received 2 applause.
nerdmann on 11/13/2013(UTC), DoddPower on 11/13/2013(UTC)
Offline DarkaneRules  
#70 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:48:15 AM(UTC)
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It is almost scary how often I agree with you Mr. Warhawk. Keep preaching my friend!
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Offline nerdmann  
#71 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:18:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: warhawk Go to Quoted Post
I agree. What I don't like to see however, is our CB's that can cover releasing WR's to the DB's that do not pick them up and can't find the ball.
The big problem right now is that the pressure is not there without a healthy CM3 or Perry. If we had those guys out there at full strength it would make a huge difference. You add Daniels, Jones, and maybe another LB or CB at times and the QB starts hitting the dirt a whole lot more often.
Right now we don't have the five guys in there when they need them to get the QB off their game.



The pressure is what it is. Clay and Perry have been out, but Hawk, Datone and Mike Daniels have been picking up slack.

The last two games, the D has just fucking collapsed. Guys releasing uncovered deep. Keystone Kops with Burnett trying to get back into position and knocking a sure INT by Tramon into the WRs hands for a TD. Fuck that shit. Pull your heads out and get with the program, bitches.

Season's on the line.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DoddPower  
#72 Posted : Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:42:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: warhawk Go to Quoted Post
I agree. What I don't like to see however, is our CB's that can cover releasing WR's to the DB's that do not pick them up and can't find the ball.
The big problem right now is that the pressure is not there without a healthy CM3 or Perry. If we had those guys out there at full strength it would make a huge difference. You add Daniels, Jones, and maybe another LB or CB at times and the QB starts hitting the dirt a whole lot more often.
Right now we don't have the five guys in there when they need them to get the QB off their game.



Yeah, if this team can somehow squeak into the playoffs and be relatively healthy, I still think they are a serious threat. Barring further injuries, the defense should be relatively healthy, and the offense (with hopefully Cobb and Rodgers) should be back and in a rhythm. At this point, it's just a matter of if this team can scrape by to back into the playoffs or not.
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