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Offline Zero2Cool  
#46 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 8:22:22 AM(UTC)
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I like the argument that both teams had an opportunity for four quarters, therefore don't NEED to have their offense touch the ball once in over time. I think if the rules were to say that both teams offense would get the ball, we'd see less urgency closing out games, thus less exciting finishes.

I'm against changing the rules in overtime. I love an exciting finish and I strongly feel that there will be a sense of urgency missing if the teams both know they'll get the ball in over time.

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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#47 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 8:51:21 AM(UTC)
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It is a pretty big overstatement to say that I "cherish" ties. I said seeing ties in the standings would be interesting; that is, it would make the playoff scenarios more intriguing.

By the way, anyone who finds sports that involve ties boring has never watched, for example, rugby union, which allows for ties but includes incentives to avoid them. Postseason standings are seeded by the accumulation of tournament points. In SuperRugby, for example, teams accrue 4 tournament points for each regular season victory, 2 points for each tie, 1 point for scoring at least four tries (the rugby equivalent of a touchdown) in one game, and 1 point for losing by less than 7 points.

So there is very little incentive to settle for a tie, and teams typically try their hardest to score as time expires. For this reason, the last quarter of most games tends to be far the most exciting. In fact, I see a lot more last-second scoring in rugby union than I ever do in the NFL -- and none of that silly settling for field goals, either. They go for tries.
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Offline vikesrule  
#48 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 8:51:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
... I love an exciting finish and I strongly feel that there will be a sense of urgency missing if the teams both know they'll get the ball in over time.


Agreed

Classic epic failure....

Quote:
NFL's Worst All-Time Coaching Decisions
3. Dennis Green Gets Waaaay Too Conservative

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The Falcons and Vikings were tied at 27 in the all-dome matchup of the '99 NFC championship with 30 seconds left. The Vikings had two timeouts left, and also had the most prolific offense to date in the history of the NFL. No wind to worry about. No snow. Forty yards would have been enough to get Gary Andersen (perfect in the regular season) into field-goal range.
But Green left the fate of his entire season to the overtime coin flip by having QB Randall Cunningham take a knee.
Atlanta won the toss, showed they are who Green THOUGHT they were, and promptly won the game without the Vikes ever seeing the ball again. Most humiliating for Green (pictured below, being consoled by Falcons coach Dan Reeves)? Being replaced by draft-day guru Mike Tice three years later.


Offline Zero2Cool  
#49 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 9:51:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vikesrule Go to Quoted Post
Agreed

Classic epic failure....




Hey, does this look familiar to you?

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Offline vikesrule  
#50 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 10:04:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Hey, does this look familiar to you?


Ya know Z2C, if I had $10 for every time that I've called you an asshole...I could retire to a life of luxury on a Caribbean island.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#51 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 10:14:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vikesrule Go to Quoted Post
Ya know Z2C, if I had $10 for every time that I've called you an asshole...I could retire to a life of luxury on a Caribbean island.



I'm gonna take that as a "yes kind sir, i remember that humiliating loss that thrusted your Packers (aka 2010 World Champion) into the playoffs". Dancing

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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#52 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 10:24:40 AM(UTC)
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That's right up there with this as one of my favorite all-time Vikings radio calls.
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Offline mi_keys  
#53 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 10:29:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
The problem is you focus squarely on the coin toss. In every one of those games, there is a high probability that something bigger occurred that affected the outcome of the game. I say high probability because nobody here can remember each OT. If you lose in OT and squarely place the blame on a coin toss, you're not watching the same game I am watching. There are too many things happening at once for one event to dictate the outcome of the game.

Is the OT system perfect?

Absolutely not, which is not the argument I am making. I believe blaming the coin toss regardless of how much data you can find on the net to support your theory is sour grapes. The person in the article sounds like he has a pair of those.

I also don't agree with the idea that it is unfair. Football is an 11 on 11 sport. That is fair. You have an opportunity to stop them. Getting the ball at your 20-yard line and driving 50 yards to setup a 47-yard field goal is not an easy task for any offense. Is there an advantage? Yes, but the entire rules of the NFL give an advantage to offenses in general nowadays. I stand to bet that good defenses rise to the occasion more often than not. The teams that are screwed in overtime are the teams that buckle under pressure. Are there exceptions? Yes, because the system is not perfect, but neither is the game of football.



Where did I (or anyone for that matter) blame the coin toss as the sole reason for a team losing an overtime game. I said it gives a massive statistical advantage. And it does. We are in agreement that there are a million factors that decide a football game. Again, if they ended in a tie, odds are they played pretty evenly over the course of the game. You and WPR keep focusing on what happened in regulation and frankly I find it to be irrelevant when judging the merits of a certain overtime system, aside from considerations on how that system might affect end of the game coaching decisions.

We are also in agreement that the current system is not perfect. What I'm arguing is that the system is majorly flawed and that if we are going to settle games in overtime we can find a system that is at least as exciting and more fair at the same time. Would that not be a good thing?
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Offline wpr  
#54 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:28:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mi_keys Go to Quoted Post
Where did I (or anyone for that matter) blame the coin toss as the sole reason for a team losing an overtime game. I said it gives a massive statistical advantage. And it does. We are in agreement that there are a million factors that decide a football game. Again, if they ended in a tie, odds are they played pretty evenly over the course of the game. You and WPR keep focusing on what happened in regulation and frankly I find it to be irrelevant when judging the merits of a certain overtime system, aside from considerations on how that system might affect end of the game coaching decisions.

We are also in agreement that the current system is not perfect. What I'm arguing is that the system is majorly flawed and that if we are going to settle games in overtime we can find a system that is at least as exciting and more fair at the same time. Would that not be a good thing?



See and you keep ignoring that we are saying what happened in regulation allows the play in OT to be considered fair. You don't, we (I) do. Kind of ends the discussion as we have different definitions of "fair".
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline wpr  
#55 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:31:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel Go to Quoted Post
It is a pretty big overstatement to say that I "cherish" ties. I said seeing ties in the standings would be interesting; that is, it would make the playoff scenarios more intriguing.


tongue in cheek comment.

I can't speak to rugby as all I have seen is college club games.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#56 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:52:16 AM(UTC)
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Aw, hell, I can't resist. I'll throw this up here again.
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Offline porky88  
#57 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 12:32:48 PM(UTC)
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err wrong thread Brick wall

Can you not delete posts?

Edited by user Sunday, July 10, 2011 1:02:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline mi_keys  
#58 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 2:39:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
See and you keep ignoring that we are saying what happened in regulation allows the play in OT to be considered fair. You don't, we (I) do. Kind of ends the discussion as we have different definitions of "fair".


I'm not even necessarily arguing on the basis of fair. I'm arguing that I would prefer major statistical advantages to be decided by something football related, not something as trivial as a flip of a coin. The solution I half jokingly suggested earlier in this thread (same as current rules, only you replace the coin flip with the oklahoma drill) wouldn't even necessarily be fair as it would be hugely biased towards power running teams with good linebackers. At least that statistical advantage would be decided by something football related though.
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Offline mi_keys  
#59 Posted : Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:44:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mi_keys Go to Quoted Post
I'm not even necessarily arguing on the basis of fair. I'm arguing that I would prefer major statistical advantages to be decided by something football related, not something as trivial as a flip of a coin. The solution I half jokingly suggested earlier in this thread (same as current rules, only you replace the coin flip with the oklahoma drill) wouldn't even necessarily be fair as it would be hugely biased towards power running teams with good linebackers. At least that statistical advantage would be decided by something football related though.


I was drinking (no excuses, we should all be holding our alcohol even in debates on this forum) when I wrote this so in all fairness this is a bit bs, my previous post did make a statement about fairness. However, I do feel there is more to my stance than simply an argument of fairness
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#60 Posted : Monday, July 11, 2011 10:32:11 AM(UTC)
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If talking to yourself is a sign of impending insanity, then what is quoting yourself a sign of? Duh!
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