DoddPower
8 years ago

It's not some ridiculous standard to expect Rodgers to be able to lead the offense to more than 13 points against a shit defense like Chicagos. He played like ass most of the night regardless of certain times WRs had trouble catching. If holding Rodgers to a "higher standard" is expecting him to be better than Alex Smith then it's really not too high of a standard is it?

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Where did I say it is ridiculous to hold Aaron Rodgers to a high standard? That's like the exact opposite of what I said, actually. Nice try. My point is that Aaron Rodgers can't be the only one that is expected to play great against bum defenses like the Bears. Other players have to step up too, and they haven't been. Cobb is being paid like a #1 WR and is playing like an average #2 WR. Adams was expected to develop and he's just been horrible. Richard Rodgers is horrible outside of the Red Zone. Eddie Lacy has been bad for most the season until the past couple of games. The offense line has overall been average as has the playcalling. All of this is just as responsible as Rodgers for the losses. If James Jones catches that touchdown the Packers win the game and the Packers survive with another day with a hope chance to improve.

People can slam Rodgers all they want, but he is the best chance the Packers have to win, whether that's good or bad. Tolzien would struggle even more. Folks that want Rodgers benched should want Brett Hundley to start because he just might have a chance to develop into a serviceable starter. Tolzien doesn't. And neither is close to giving the Packers as good of a chance to win as Aaron Rodgers.
nerdmann
8 years ago

It's not some ridiculous standard to expect Rodgers to be able to lead the offense to more than 13 points against a shit defense like Chicagos. He played like ass most of the night regardless of certain times WRs had trouble catching. If holding Rodgers to a "higher standard" is expecting him to be better than Alex Smith then it's really not too high of a standard is it?

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Aaron has been given the keys to the offense. His Yes-Man is now the "play caller/assistant coach." The same guy who abandoned the run while Eddie was getting 6.2 per and Starks was getting 5.4 per, in order to do what? PASS!

Because THAT's been working so well, right?

And btw the Bears run D is iirc 25th in the league.

But hey, nobody criticize Aaron, he's our SAVIOR!
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
DoddPower
8 years ago

Aaron has been given the keys to the offense. His Yes-Man is now the "play caller/assistant coach." The same guy who abandoned the run while Eddie was getting 6.2 per and Starks was getting 5.4 per, in order to do what? PASS!

Because THAT's been working so well, right?

And btw the Bears run D is iirc 25th in the league.

But hey, nobody criticize Aaron, he's our SAVIOR!

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Are you even reading the Packers discussion across the internet?? Aaron Rodgers is being criticized heavily. You really live in your own bubble, don't you? Your hyperbole is tired and nonsensical.
steveishere
8 years ago

Where did I say it is ridiculous to hold Aaron Rodgers to a high standard? That's like the exact opposite of what I said, actually. Nice try. My point is that Aaron Rodgers can't be the only one that is expected to play great against bum defenses like the Bears. Other players have to step up too, and they haven't been. Cobb is being paid like a #1 WR and is playing like an average #2 WR. Adams was expected to develop and he's just been horrible. Richard Rodgers is horrible outside of the Red Zone. Eddie Lacy has been bad for most the season until the past couple of games. The offense line has overall been average as has the playcalling. All of this is just as responsible as Rodgers for the losses. If James Jones catches that touchdown the Packers win the game and the Packers survive with another day with a hope chance to improve.

People can slam Rodgers all they want, but he is the best chance the Packers have to win, whether that's good or bad. Tolzien would struggle even more. Folks that want Rodgers benched should want Brett Hundley to start because he just might have a chance to develop into a serviceable starter. Tolzien doesn't. And neither is close to giving the Packers as good of a chance to win as Aaron Rodgers.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



That's why he should get the most criticism when he plays like butt week after week. It's all justified.
musccy
8 years ago
I'm starting to come around more to Dodd in the sense that I'm heaping less blame on AR.

After piecing some info together since Thursday night, it's clear these WRs can't run simple routes like a quick out or slant. Screw the back shoulder they can't figure out how to do a scramble drill. Aaron Rodgers threw the pic to where Davante was supposed to be while he was busy working on his Christmas list.

I'm not absolving AR. A tough aspect to decipher is changed plays at the line. He's missing on some simple bubble screens and 5 yard passes, etc. That said, the receivers are doing him ZERO favors.
Barfarn
8 years ago

Wait, so the Packers WRs are playing no different than early in the season, but Aaron Rodgers is? That makes no sense. It's much more complicated than that. None of the Packers offensive players are playing very well consistently. This is not on any one person, or only on the players, period. Nerd logic.

The Packers are having an OFFENSIVE problem, which includes offensive talent, execution, health, play calling, scheme, and motivation, passion, etc.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



You should address Nerd's argument rather than attacking his "logic." The "logic" is spot on!

Simile: a few weeks ago in a soccer game in France, did thousands off spectators suddenly and unilaterally go haywire, trampling each other in tunnels and pouring out onto the field? Or was there one CAUSAL action that explains all of their behavior?

Similarly, the idea that 24 players simultaneously have gone haywire is patently absurd from a "logic" perspective. You do see that, correct? It may even be true, as illogical events do occur; but ya gotta support this thing that you believe to be true, an illogical event, with more than superficial fanspeak dogma and your opinion [If that opinion is to persuade, as opposed to only satiate anothers similar opinion].

Let's use logic:

The entire #3 offense and its staff are back. Sure Jordy's been replaced by Jones Jones; but R.Rodgers, Adams, Abby, Lacy, Perillo and Janis have an extra year in system. Okay, at most, this might explain the O dropping a notch or 2. But can this CAUSALLY explain a drop from 3rd best to 3rd worst?

Now let's apply the law of parsimony for testing hypotheses as adopted by Franciscan Frier William of Ockham [most generically know it as Occum's razor]. Applying the Razor in the French simile we can presume to test thousands of independent hypotheses as to why each individual went haywire; or we can look for the most obvious thing and test it: that all were reacting to one stimuli.

Who has the most impact on any one offensive play? Aaron Rodgers has the ability to change the play if the alignment is bad; escape a DLman if 1 or 2 OLman mess up; go to anyone of 5 receivers if one is covered; or run; and he effectively has 3 plays to only go 10 yards, so he can throw the ball away as opposed to taking a sack; etc. Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected or as some say the simplest explanation is usually correct one. The hypothesis that one should test is: does AR's sudden lack of accuracy and exponential increase in poor decision making explain the O's collapse?

If you use, in your words, "logic" and set aside the emotional prejudicial man-crush idol thing, you'll see it too.
DoddPower
8 years ago

You should address Nerd's argument rather than attacking his "logic." The "logic" is spot on!

Simile: a few weeks ago in a soccer game in France, did thousands off spectators suddenly and unilaterally go haywire, trampling each other in tunnels and pouring out onto the field? Or was there one CAUSAL action that explains all of their behavior?

Similarly, the idea that 24 players simultaneously have gone haywire is patently absurd from a "logic" perspective. You do see that, correct? It may even be true, as illogical events do occur; but ya gotta support this thing that you believe to be true, an illogical event, with more than superficial fanspeak dogma and your opinion [If that opinion is to persuade, as opposed to only satiate anothers similar opinion].

Let's use logic:

The entire #3 offense and its staff are back. Sure Jordy's been replaced by Jones Jones; but R.Rodgers, Adams, Abby, Lacy, Perillo and Janis have an extra year in system. Okay, at most, this might explain the O dropping a notch or 2. But can this CAUSALLY explain a drop from 3rd best to 3rd worst?

Now let's apply the law of parsimony for testing hypotheses as adopted by Franciscan Frier William of Ockham [most generically know it as Occum's razor]. Applying the Razor in the French simile we can presume to test thousands of independent hypotheses as to why each individual went haywire; or we can look for the most obvious thing and test it: that all were reacting to one stimuli.

Who has the most impact on any one offensive play? Aaron Rodgers has the ability to change the play if the alignment is bad; escape a DLman if 1 or 2 OLman mess up; go to anyone of 5 receivers if one is covered; or run; and he effectively has 3 plays to only go 10 yards, so he can throw the ball away as opposed to taking a sack; etc. Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected or as some say the simplest explanation is usually correct one. The hypothesis that one should test is: does AR's sudden lack of accuracy and exponential increase in poor decision making explain the O's collapse?

If you use, in your words, "logic" and set aside the emotional prejudicial man-crush idol thing, you'll see it too.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 




lol, it's not a "Man-crush" at all. That's just silly. I'm being objective when I say that Aaron Rodgers needs to play better, but so the hell does the rest of the offense. That's undeniable. It's not all on Aaron Rodgers no matter how many books you want to write about it that I'm not going to read. It's much deeper than that, and as I have said MULTIPLE TIMES, it definitely includes Aaron Rodgers. But yes, I give Aaron Rodgers more benefit of the doubt at this point because he is the most proven player on offense. I know he can do better, and I expect he will. I'm not convinced that Cobb can be a #1 WR even though he is being paid like one, and I'm DEFINITELY not convinced that Richard Rodgers will ever be anything more than an average #2 TE, despite your arguments to the contrary. I see no other great players on the offense. A few decent players, a couple of good players. Only one great player. Or at least only one that SHOULD be a great player.

Ultimately, the Packers have lost FOUR games. They still have time to fix things. I think it's going to come down to week 17 against the Vikings, a game the Packers should be able to very reasonably win.

It doesn't matter though because this isn't a championship team. If you are familiar with my posts over the past few years (which you obviously are not because you have only been around since March 2015), I have argued that Aaron Rodgers needs to play better if the Packers are ever going to win another championship, especially in the playoffs. I've had several debates with UDFA about it. He likes to give ALL the credit to Aaron Rodgers, calls him the best QB ever basically, and minimizes the rest of the team. Many other Packers fans are the same way. This is obviously silly. As a whole, Aaron Rodgers has not played good enough in the playoffs for a few years now. And unfortunately for him, if he doesn't play great, the team is going no where. He's obviously not going to have a defense that carries him.

So no, there's no man crush at all, but I'm also not going to only blame him for the Packers troubles. That's simply not the case. There is plenty of blame to go around. But Aaron Rodgers has not been good enough in the playoffs. But he IS good enough to lead a championship team is he has enough support and coaching. He currently doesn't. This is the most important point, imo. I have no doubt there are some organizations in the NFL that would build a program around Aaron Rodgers that would be unstoppable and lead to at least one more championship victory.
nerdmann
8 years ago
Remember what guys like Greg Jennings and Donald Driver have said about Aaron? Now imagine you're a second year guy struggling through injuries. Aaron is now calling you out in the press, while himself playing the shittiest football of his career.

Is that leadership?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
gbguy20
8 years ago

Remember what guys like Greg Jennings and Donald Driver have said about Aaron? Now imagine you're a second year guy struggling through injuries. Aaron is now calling you out in the press, while himself playing the shittiest football of his career.

Is that leadership?

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I must have missed what Donald said?
yooperfan
8 years ago

I must have missed what Donald said?

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 


I guess I missed that as well.

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