Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
9 years ago

Yep he sure did. Even he know it was shaky ground at best and Unconstitutional at worst. He was willing to be the bad guy and held responsible for his actions if the post war courts would say so. That is a far cry from someone who was wanting to be a despot.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I've never thought of him as a despot. But the choices he was willing to make with respect to various freedoms in the name of preserving the Union, do leave me with some ambivalence toward him that I didn't have back when I was a kid and thought he was the greatest President since Washington.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
9 years ago

And in their own time, the Founders were right. But that was then and this is now. They didn't suitcase nukes, airliners full of jet fuel, a barrel of radioactive waste that could make a large part of a major city unlivable for centuries, etc. The transportation technology back then didn't exist to bring the evils of "over there" to over here.

Freedom to be ALIVE is a powerful freedom. Before you can be free to not have that state oppress you; before you can use the freedom to speak out against that oppression - or anything else; Before you can have the freedom to live life the way you see fit to maximize your enjoyment, YOU HAVE TO NOT BE DEAD!

"Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither"? Nope! I'm here to tell you, Security i.e. Freedom to be Alive IS freedom - the ultimate freedom.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Hah. That's why I'm not a conservative.

I'm unconvinced that the state makes living less of a risk. Suitcase nukes and post-modern whack-jobs notwithstanding. I'm unconvinced, for example, that the TSA actually serves a valuable function other than giving a *false* sense of security against said whack-jobs.

Or can.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
9 years ago

I've never thought of him as a despot. But the choices he was willing to make with respect to various freedoms in the name of preserving the Union, do leave me with some ambivalence toward him that I didn't have back when I was a kid and thought he was the greatest President since Washington.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I know what you are saying and why. I have mulled it over and over for years. Seeing things like this have helped me judge him less harshly.

In particular, Lincoln stated the objection this way: that the president, "who is sworn to 'take care that the laws be faithfully executed,' should not himself violate them."

But when he addressed Congress on July 4, 1861, Lincoln defended his decision on two grounds: that it was essential to preserving the Union and that it was constitutional.

"Are all the laws, but one, to go unexecuted, and the government itself go to pieces, lest that one be violated?" Lincoln asked. "Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken, if the government should be overthrown, when it was believed that disregarding the single law, would tend to preserve it?"

And Lincoln cited the provision in the Constitution - Article I, Section 9, clause 2 - that authorized his action: "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.''



I have no doubt Mr Lincoln wrested with this as much as he did with any single issue. I doubt he took it lightly.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
9 years ago
When shit hits the fan there is freedom of speech.

Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    dfosterf (4h) : Maybe
    Mucky Tundra (4h) : Yes
    Zero2Cool (5h) : No.
    Mucky Tundra (7h) : End of a Degu-era
    dhazer (8h) : Steelers sign Patterson because of new kickoff rule interesting
    Zero2Cool (11h) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
    Zero2Cool (12h) : They do not do it for "content sake".
    dfosterf (22h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Haha
    Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
    beast (27-Mar) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
    buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
    buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
    Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
    Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
    beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2023 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
    Bears
    Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Falcons
    Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
    SAINTS
    Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
    LIONS
    Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
    Raiders
    Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
    RAMS
    Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
    Steelers
    Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
    CHARGERS
    Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
    CHIEFS
    Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
    Giants
    Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
    BUCCANEERS
    Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
    Panthers
    Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
    Vikings
    Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
    Cowboys
    Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
    49ers
    Recent Topics
    4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

    22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

    27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    27-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

    27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

    25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

    24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.