Zero2Cool
8 years ago

Obviously the fact remains that a team has to either win their division or secure a wild card spot to have a chance at winning a Super Bowl. Therefore, it's not silly to have winning the division and securing home field advantage throughout the playoffs as the first main reasonable goal for a season. Although my main goal for a season is the Packers staying healthy. But still, win the division over the putrid Bears and Vikings, and then everything resets in the playoffs. The goals reset, and the "season" begins anew. Goal number two is to win the Super Bowl.

I'm not sure why that's so hard for some to understand. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm sure that very few Packers fans are completely content with only winning division championships. It's just part of a sequential progress, and a perfectly reasonable goal for the season.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



I don't think fans should be content (except Vikings) with a division championship. I do think they have value as they do mean you are one of 6 in your conference. When it comes to bragging rights, division titles mean squat. So you were better than three teams, whoopie. In the grand scheme of things, which big picture is how I try to view things, they are quite valuable. You can't win the dance if you don't get invited.


Goals I have for Packers. Sweep at home, go at least .500 on the road, secure first round bye, win the next three games and then order my Green Bay Packers Super Bowl Champions gear.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago
It isn't about what you win or don't win.

It's about HOW you STRIVE to win.

In the end, says the preacher in Ecclesiastes, it's all chasing the wind, anyway. So it isn't where you end up that matters. It's how you approached things along the way.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
uffda udfa
8 years ago
Ecclesiastes...my favorite.

Wisconsin Men's BB making two consecutive Final 4's is empty. No title in two straight appearances. Those teams failed just like UW football does every single year even though fans are happy with wins in bowls like the Outback or the oh so classy Rose.

Go for broke. Don't go for long term competitiveness...can't serve both masters. Do everything you can every year to win it all. That is why each season is it's own. You have one shot don't miss your chance to blow opportunity comes once in a lifetime.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


mi_keys
8 years ago

Go for broke. Don't go for long term competitiveness...can't serve both masters. Do everything you can every year to win it all. That is why each season is it's own. You have one shot don't miss your chance to blow opportunity comes once in a lifetime.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



This is where there's a big disconnect and where I feel you incorrectly conclude most of us are just content plodding along as relevant or as you put it "wasting AR12".

If you sell out for today that absolutely does impact tomorrow. If you go big on a free agent now, you may well not have the money to keep your young guys coming up for new contracts. If I trade a player away today for a boat load of draft picks I've shifted resources from today into future seasons. What increased your odds to win in one season, hurt your odds in another.

This isn't to say every decision should be made weighting tomorrow over today or vice versa. It should be made on the basis that if this decision impacts my team for 5 years, which option gives me the best chance to win the most championships over that 5 year period. If the decision impacts you for 2 years, you consider 2 years. If it impacts you for 10, you consider 10. If it impacts 1, you consider 1.

If I have a choice of a two scenarios, the first in which I have a 5% chance to win a title this year and a 5% chance to win next year, the second I have a 4% chance this year and a 7% next; you take the second scenario because it maximizes your chances of winning a title, even though you aren't selling out for today.

A real example of this was drafting Rodgers. We had other needs. We could have thrown all our eggs into the last few years with Favre basket. Instead we took the pick we believed would sustain success in the long hall. This is diametrically opposed to your constant strive to win today rhetoric, yet it's a decision you dismiss as obvious. It's not obvious if you religiously stick to this go for broke mantra.

The decisions a GM makes are inherently difficult to quantify. What is this free agents value relative to this prospect or this draft pick? How long will this decision impact my team? We all come up with different answers. You can freely debate the pros and cons of this free agent signing, or that draft pick, or this trade, and you may even convince some people that on that decision we should've favored the option with the more immediate benefit. Everything else--the "strive to dominate", the "you're all just content", the "opportunity only comes once in a lifetime", the "go for broke"--it's all empty rhetoric and straw men.
Born and bred a cheesehead
uffda udfa
8 years ago

This is where there's a big disconnect and where I feel you incorrectly conclude most of us are just content plodding along as relevant or as you put it "wasting AR12".

If you sell out for today that absolutely does impact tomorrow. If you go big on a free agent now, you may well not have the money to keep your young guys coming up for new contracts. If I trade a player away today for a boat load of draft picks I've shifted resources from today into future seasons. What increased your odds to win in one season, hurt your odds in another.

This isn't to say every decision should be made weighting tomorrow over today or vice versa. It should be made on the basis that if this decision impacts my team for 5 years, which option gives me the best chance to win the most championships over that 5 year period. If the decision impacts you for 2 years, you consider 2 years. If it impacts you for 10, you consider 10. If it impacts 1, you consider 1.

If I have a choice of a two scenarios, the first in which I have a 5% chance to win a title this year and a 5% chance to win next year, the second I have a 4% chance this year and a 7% next; you take the second scenario because it maximizes your chances of winning a title, even though you aren't selling out for today.

A real example of this was drafting Rodgers. We had other needs. We could have thrown all our eggs into the last few years with Favre basket. Instead we took the pick we believed would sustain success in the long hall. This is diametrically opposed to your constant strive to win today rhetoric, yet it's a decision you dismiss as obvious. It's not obvious if you religiously stick to this go for broke mantra.

The decisions a GM makes are inherently difficult to quantify. What is this free agents value relative to this prospect or this draft pick? How long will this decision impact my team? We all come up with different answers. You can freely debate the pros and cons of this free agent signing, or that draft pick, or this trade, and you may even convince some people that on that decision we should've favored the option with the more immediate benefit. Everything else--the "strive to dominate", the "you're all just content", the "opportunity only comes once in a lifetime", the "go for broke"--it's all empty rhetoric and straw men.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



...but...each season is self-contained. It's own entity. Do you really want Ted Thompson focused on next year and beyond to cheapen the upcoming season? I feel he is too much about the future and not enough about now. I do believe you have to have a vision for the future, but to err on the side of that over your current season seems wrong to me. Your very best should be an every day thing not a pulled back approach to life. I've made several analogies regarding this dynamic over the year I've been here. Here's another... Ever see the movie, UP? It's a cartoon but there is a principle to glean. If you always think about the future, now never gets it's proper due. Ol' Carl was going to take his wife to Paradise Falls "one day". Well, she died and one day never came. Rodgers could suffer a career ending injury at any point and all this playing for the future is going to be futile. We won't have the superstar QB to carry us any longer. What will you think if Aaron's career ends this season? Will it be...A) Boy, I'm happy Ted Thompson has a plan for future stability or 😎 Man, that sucks Ted Thompson didn't do more to enjoy Aaron while he was with us? I don't believe anyone is seriously going to answer...A. Why? We all know when Rodgers goes our odds, since you like them, go wayyyyyyy down of competing for a SB. We barely compete for one now with him. So, when he's gone it sure is going to be great to strive for 8-8 because Ted Thompson wanted to avoid 4-12. Rodgers is the pearl of great price that you sell and forsake all others for. A rare unique period in franchise history and we have a man worried about waiting for a 4th round comp pick to develop so we might hit 8-8 when Aaron is gone. Yes, that makes sense. Playing it safe is NOT always the prudent move. How many guys wouldn't be with their wives if they just played it safe and didn't have the balls to go for it? Yup, and some of them may live to regret going for it as she turned out to be a nightmare, but at least you had the balls to go for it in the first place like Wade would say. The mindset is what is important. WIN IT ALL should be the ONLY mindset in Green Bay while Aaron is here and it isn't. That's sad. What's sadder is the legions of Packers fans mostly support this idea. Typical masses...they never get it right.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


gbguy20
8 years ago
Uffda just quoted Eminem. The key to my heart.
Zero2Cool
8 years ago
It's a shame the coaching staff does so much analysis only to not have the mindset of winning it all. What a shame.
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mi_keys
8 years ago

...but...each season is self-contained. It's own entity. Do you really want Ted Thompson focused on next year and beyond to cheapen the upcoming season? I feel he is too much about the future and not enough about now. I do believe you have to have a vision for the future, but to err on the side of that over your current season seems wrong to me. Your very best should be an every day thing not a pulled back approach to life. I've made several analogies regarding this dynamic over the year I've been here. Here's another... Ever see the movie, UP? It's a cartoon but there is a principle to glean. If you always think about the future, now never gets it's proper due. Ol' Carl was going to take his wife to Paradise Falls "one day". Well, she died and one day never came. Rodgers could suffer a career ending injury at any point and all this playing for the future is going to be futile. We won't have the superstar QB to carry us any longer. What will you think if Aaron's career ends this season? Will it be...A) Boy, I'm happy Ted Thompson has a plan for future stability or 😎 Man, that sucks Ted Thompson didn't do more to enjoy Aaron while he was with us? I don't believe anyone is seriously going to answer...A. Why? We all know when Rodgers goes our odds, since you like them, go wayyyyyyy down of competing for a SB. We barely compete for one now with him. So, when he's gone it sure is going to be great to strive for 8-8 because Ted Thompson wanted to avoid 4-12. Rodgers is the pearl of great price that you sell and forsake all others for. A rare unique period in franchise history and we have a man worried about waiting for a 4th round comp pick to develop so we might hit 8-8 when Aaron is gone. Yes, that makes sense. Playing it safe is NOT always the prudent move. How many guys wouldn't be with their wives if they just played it safe and didn't have the balls to go for it? Yup, and some of them may live to regret going for it as she turned out to be a nightmare, but at least you had the balls to go for it in the first place like Wade would say. The mindset is what is important. WIN IT ALL should be the ONLY mindset in Green Bay while Aaron is here and it isn't. That's sad. What's sadder is the legions of Packers fans mostly support this idea. Typical masses...they never get it right.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



You desperately need to learn the concept of a paragraph.

I didn't say err on the side of future years. I said consider the entire length of time of a decision. You've missed the point.

Decisions GM's make are usually not self contained within one year. If I sign a player to a four year contract, that contract impacts my cap for four years. If I trade a draft pick for a player, I don't have that draft pick that would've been on my team for however many years (not to mention I've traded for someone who may have multiple years on his contract or that I intend to resign if he's not a rental).

Injuries are a reality of the game, yes. How frequently do career ending injuries occur to pocket passers? That's part of the calculus. But you don't use that one potential scenario as the sole basis for your decision. What if Rodgers stays healthy and plays until he's 38-40? Probably not likely either. He's probably most likely going to play another 4-6 years.

What if we sell out for a year or two now and don't win. Then the last two to four years of Rodgers career we bleed young talent because our cap is tied to free agents we brought in or because we traded away draft picks? Are his last years not potentially wasted in that scenario?

And what if we sold out for this year and Rodgers suffers the career ending injury this year? Or the high cost free agent or trade target or whoever does? The injury problem isn't unique to one side or the other.

All of the above scenarios and their potential likelihood need to be considered for any decision made. If the expected present benefit outweighs the expected future cost of a move considering all scenarios, you make the move. If not, you don't.

Everything you said about Rodgers could've been and was said about Favre. It doesn't address how your mantra would dictate passing on Rodgers in the draft.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Tezzy
8 years ago
First posting after taking my off-season break from the forums to regain my sanity.

I enjoy to a high degree the Packers winning Division Championships. It means the Bears, Vikings, and Lions did not. That is the exact opposite of meaning nothing in my book.
On top of every beard grows a man.
"The Bears are shell-shocked... and it's breaking my heart."
Zero2Cool
8 years ago

Everything you said about Rodgers could've been and was said about Favre. It doesn't address how your mantra would dictate passing on Rodgers in the draft.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Do you wonder why Aaron Rodgers greatness is used as a weapon to discredit Ted Thompson, yet, Brett Favre is not used in the same manner for Ron Wolf?

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