Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
1. I don't have a problem with replacing Capers or position coaches, whether it is done now or at the end of the season. However ... the reality is that you aren't going to be able to install any major "system" changes in mid-season. Even if the new coach "has his system designed and ready to go," you aren't going to have enough time to do much system-changing.

2. I don't have a problem with criticizing Thompson in his ability to get sufficient talent. But the reality is there is no significant ability to infuse new talent mid-season. Mostly you've got people other teams don't want that have been out there for a while (the defensive equivalent of Wallace and Tolzein) or people with injury questions (the defensive equivalent of Flynn).

3. IMO, if there is going to be any major improvement on defense (or, if you are more optimistic, a return to the defensive quality we saw prior to the Bears game) this season, it most likely going to be in (i) finding a way to get better play (ii) from the current players playing (iii) the system they are currently playing. How do you do that? Maybe by putting a light-a-fire motivator in charge (Greene? McCarthy himself). Maybe by sending a message by benching someone who people figured more or less untouchable (Raji? Burnett? Jones?). dunno. Maybe telling the assistant coaches that unless a fire gets lit under the subset of players under their supervision that they will be gone. Find a way to tell everyone, and tell it believably, that everyone's job (save Hawk's and Matthews and, IMO, Pickett) is at serious risk at season's end, period. Maybe all of the above.

McCarthy and his assistants are going to be earning their money and putting longer hours than ever from here on out.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
PackFanWithTwins
10 years ago

The nice thing about sitting here on the internet (besides avoiding the work that is on our desks.) is we don't have to come up with a better plan. We don't have to name the DC who will do a better job. All we have to do is voice our discontent with Capers.

As far as a failure of the players = failure of the coaching staff as a whole.

I personally have not been much of a fan of the Psycho 1-5-5 or 2-4-5 or what ever formations he runs out there. It may work for a few snaps against a rookie if he and his OC are not prepared for it but 2-3 years later it is no longer a surprise and it is not as effective as it was the very first time it was trotted out.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Our Dline has been very good mostly. Our ILBs have been solid even with injuries. OLB has struggled overcoming their injuries but I would say who has been playing fairly well considering the injuries and players switching positions.

Where we have been hurt the most is the secondary and mainly coverage across the middle which points me to Safety. So perhaps we need to look at our secondary coaches and players. though We could blame Capers for his position coaches.

I don't think Hayward was ready to come back, and that hurt us. That moved Williams back outside. I think we are best with Shields and House on the edge. with Tramon covering the slot.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
luigis
10 years ago

Our Dline has been very good mostly. Our ILBs have been solid even with injuries. OLB has struggled overcoming their injuries but I would say who has been playing fairly well considering the injuries and players switching positions.

Where we have been hurt the most is the secondary and mainly coverage across the middle which points me to Safety. So perhaps we need to look at our secondary coaches and players. though We could blame Capers for his position coaches.

I don't think Hayward was ready to come back, and that hurt us. That moved Williams back outside. I think we are best with Shields and House on the edge. with Tramon covering the slot.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I agree with you. Hayward's return destroyed our defense.

I think it had a very negative effect on the players attitude. House and Hyde were playing really well and they both said, specially House, that they have done all they could to keep playing many snaps. Then suddenly Hayward returns and plays 29 snaps. House and Hyde just disappeared.

I don't know if this was Capers fault but he is responsible for that so it add against him.

Shields, Tramon, House and Hyde had found good chemistry and Hayward =who can't tackle my grandma= destroyed that chemistry.

Luis
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

We've got what, 6 first round picks on defense? A number of 2-3's?

Capers can do it with smoke and mirrors, but he's been exposed the last two weeks. BADLY.

Now he's got Clay back, so he should be back up to relatively full strength.

Capers track record is that the middle of the field goes uncovered and also, the team sh!ts itself on a regular basis. The defense hasn't shown up ready to play for 60 either of the last two weeks.

Btw, Brad Jones had plenty of free agent interest, although I like Lattimore just as much if not more. And as for Datone, dude had TWO sacks yesterday. Sounds like the ankle is getting better.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



That six would be who? Raji, Datone Jones, Perry, Hawk, Matthews, and who am I missing, that's only five. Significantly, none of those five are DBs - the portion of the D that has been less bad. The front seven has stunk the worst - Raji worst of all.

My question - when deciding to blame Capers or not, is who was the prime decision maker on those draft picks? Arguably NONE of them other than Matthews was a decent pick. It's probably too soon to judge Datone as bad, maybe the same with Perry, and Hawk finally after 6 or 7 years of mediocrity is playing decent this season - still not up to the level of where he was drafted. And Raji is a big worthless lump - a disappointment if he had been drafted in the 4th round much less the 1st.

I'm convinced that the lack of interceptions and fumble recoveries this season is luck and circumstance, not anything Capers can be blamed for. The same is true of a lot of the big plays against us like that first TD yesterday. On that play, we had double coverage, but no pass rush without blitzing - because of poor quality in the front seven - what are you gonna do? You can only compensate for so much with schemes.


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

1. I don't have a problem with replacing Capers or position coaches, whether it is done now or at the end of the season. However ... the reality is that you aren't going to be able to install any major "system" changes in mid-season. Even if the new coach "has his system designed and ready to go," you aren't going to have enough time to do much system-changing.

2. I don't have a problem with criticizing Thompson in his ability to get sufficient talent. But the reality is there is no significant ability to infuse new talent mid-season. Mostly you've got people other teams don't want that have been out there for a while (the defensive equivalent of Wallace and Tolzein) or people with injury questions (the defensive equivalent of Flynn).

3. IMO, if there is going to be any major improvement on defense (or, if you are more optimistic, a return to the defensive quality we saw prior to the Bears game) this season, it most likely going to be in (i) finding a way to get better play (ii) from the current players playing (iii) the system they are currently playing. How do you do that? Maybe by putting a light-a-fire motivator in charge (Greene? McCarthy himself). Maybe by sending a message by benching someone who people figured more or less untouchable (Raji? Burnett? Jones?). dunno. Maybe telling the assistant coaches that unless a fire gets lit under the subset of players under their supervision that they will be gone. Find a way to tell everyone, and tell it believably, that everyone's job (save Hawk's and Matthews and, IMO, Pickett) is at serious risk at season's end, period. Maybe all of the above.

McCarthy and his assistants are going to be earning their money and putting longer hours than ever from here on out.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I agree with a lot of what you say, Wade. The question is, WHY was the Packers D better (or at least SEEMED better) before the Bears game?

Somebody in one of these threads sarcastically said "it's all about Aaron Rodgers - even the bad D now that he is out". Well, that's true. Opposition offenses play different when the Packers are ahead. They are limited in their playcalling - playing catch-up with a lot of passing, etc. - allow Capers' schemes to work and compensate for low quality personnel. So yes, not having Aaron Rodgers really does affect our defense also.

Hopefully with Tolzien starting the game - prepared and with a gameplan designed for him, we can take the lead and force some of the same stuff as when Rodgers is there.


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
PackFanWithTwins
10 years ago

I agree with a lot of what you say, Wade. The question is, WHY was the Packers D better (or at least SEEMED better) before the Bears game?

Somebody in one of these threads sarcastically said "it's all about Aaron Rodgers - even the bad D now that he is out". Well, that's true. Opposition offenses play different when the Packers are ahead. They are limited in their playcalling - playing catch-up with a lot of passing, etc. - allow Capers' schemes to work and compensate for low quality personnel. So yes, not having Aaron Rodgers really does affect our defense also.

Hopefully with Tolzien starting the game - prepared and with a gameplan designed for him, we can take the lead and force some of the same stuff as when Rodgers is there.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Can't agree on the difference being Rodgers. Offenses play the same until they get forced into being pass happy by being down, and this year even with Rodgers we were not blowing anybody's doors off to get to that point.

The biggest change that I see making a difference is Casey Hayward coming back. Which moved Tramon back outside. I think we are best in coverage with Shields and House on the edges. And Tramon in the slot.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
luigis
10 years ago

Can't agree on the difference being Rodgers. Offenses play the same until they get forced into being pass happy by being down, and this year even with Rodgers we were not blowing anybody's doors off to get to that point.

The biggest change that I see making a difference is Casey Hayward coming back. Which moved Tramon back outside. I think we are best in coverage with Shields and House on the edges. And Tramon in the slot.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I think it's not only about coverage but about feelings. House and Hyde where having great chemistry and suddenly Hayward takes a spot. The inclusion of Hayward destroyed the chemistry in the secondary and it sent a confusing message to players "it doesn't matter how well you play I'll bench you anyway for no reason"

Luis
dhazer
10 years ago
Why is alot of you saying the downfall started with the Bears game? I look at see the following:

49ers = 34
Redskins = 20
Bengals = 34
Lions =9
ravens = 17
Browns = 13
Vikings = 31
Bears = 27
Eagles = 27



granted the last 4 games were against backup qbs but we have been giving up points all year.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
UserPostedImage
steveishere
10 years ago
I don't think it's Hayward that's the issue. I don't think the CBs have really been too bad at all even in the last couple games. It's mostly been safeties. The biggest difference I've seen is McCown and Foles are pretty much on hot streaks right now while the QBs we played before them were Flacco and Weeden who have both been having awful seasons. Hayward was in the secondary against Minnesota and they only gave up 145 yards.
play2win
10 years ago

Why is alot of you saying the downfall started with the Bears game? I look at see the following:

49ers = 34
Redskins = 20
Bengals = 34
Lions =9
ravens = 17
Browns = 13
Vikings = 31
Bears = 27
Eagles = 27



granted the last 4 games were against backup qbs but we have been giving up points all year.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



3 years running at that. I'm kind of with Dakota. I can't see McCarthy doing it, but would not mind seeing it happen. And, as he said, that 2 man DL shit is for the birds… ugh. I don't ever want to see it again. I remember thinking that yesterday when I saw it, saying to myself, "why is there just Raji and Pick on the line?" Gasket/mind blown...
Fan Shout
dfosterf (6h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (13h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (14h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (14h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (17h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (20h) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (20h) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (20h) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (20h) : Against tbd
dfosterf (20h) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (20h) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (20h) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (20h) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (20h) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (20h) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (21h) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (21h) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (21h) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Teams will receive a 3rd challenge if 1 was successful. Previously, it took 2
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

18h / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.