Zero2Cool
12 years ago

So far, according to Florida law, he can walk (not enough evidence saying that he was the aggressor, thus he 'defended' himself).

If he never got out of his SUV, this would have never happened. So you'd think there HAS to be some accountability held there, right?

Originally Posted by: Formo 



So he was following this kid in his vehicle and shot the kid in self defense? I don't know about you guys, but if someone is following me in a car while I'm walking, I am going to be on the defensive. And if this person gets out, I will be even more defensive for my own personal safety.
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Pack93z
12 years ago

Oh, both Al and Jesse were the reason this became such a hot 'read'. The killing happened about a month ago. They found out about the 'injustice' of the white killer walking scott free and they blew it to massive proportions.

Sadly enough, we wouldn't be having this discussion if either one of them didn't cry wolf.

Originally Posted by: Formo 



But does that make it wrong that we are having this discussion? Does any kid.. any victim of such a crime not have the right to be heard?

Would it be different if say Rush spoke out and brought a killing of a white kid by a black neighborhood watchman to light, bringing nation attention to it?

Yes.. those political activists, like they all do, are using this case to get their name in the media, and yes that is a shame to "use" it for personal gain, however it has opened a case that the police were quick to dismiss.

But IMO, it does not minimize the merits of this case being brought to court against Zimmerman.. especially with some of the inconsistent aspects brought to light.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Formo
12 years ago

So he was following this kid in his vehicle and shot the kid in self defense? I don't know about you guys, but if someone is following me in a car while I'm walking, I am going to be on the defensive. And if this person gets out, I will be even more defensive for my own personal safety.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Of course. But Zimmerman wasn't following the kid to 'shoot' him. He was following a suspicious person. At one point, he lost him. Now, I believe it's still unclear whether or not Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 AFTER he got out of his car or before..

What's completely unclear is how the altercation started. It could range from Zman approaching the kid and asking what he is doing and then getting a fist in the nose as an answer to Zman actually trying to detain the kid before the police arrive.
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Formo
12 years ago

But does that make it wrong that we are having this discussion? Does any kid.. any victim of such a crime not have the right to be heard?

Would it be different if say Rush spoke out and brought a killing of a white kid by a black neighborhood watchman to light, bringing nation attention to it?

Yes.. those political activists, like they all do, are using this case to get their name in the media, and yes that is a shame to "use" it for personal gain, however it has opened a case that the police were quick to dismiss.

But IMO, it does not minimize the merits of this case being brought to court against Zimmerman.. especially with some of the inconsistent aspects brought to light.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



It was my understanding that the reason the local police weren't doing anything because the DA was working with Feds. But maybe I misunderstood.
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Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Of course. But Zimmerman wasn't following the kid to 'shoot' him. He was following a suspicious person. At one point, he lost him. Now, I believe it's still unclear whether or not Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 AFTER he got out of his car or before..

What's completely unclear is how the altercation started. It could range from Zman approaching the kid and asking what he is doing and then getting a fist in the nose as an answer to Zman actually trying to detain the kid before the police arrive.

Originally Posted by: Formo 



How does the kid know if the grown man is following him to shoot him, to kidnap him, to rape him, to just say hi, or what not? The kid doesn't know, thus, you get defensive.

The more I read, the more I fault the adult. It sounds more and more like the adult (figuratively) backed the kid into a corner.

How does an adult shoot a kid in self defense after the adult has followed the kid and leaves his vehicle to approach/question the kid? Didn't the 911 operator also mention to the adult following him was NOT necessary?

After the adult shot the kid, did the adult immediately call 911?

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Pack93z
12 years ago

It was my understanding that the reason the local police weren't doing anything because the DA was working with Feds. But maybe I misunderstood.

Originally Posted by: Formo 




Here is a timeline from ABC.. this is how I understand it in reading a couple of different reports upon it.. FBI didn't get involved until being pushed by the family attorney. there is more on the leap.



http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/ 

Below is a timeline of events:

Feb. 26: Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old Florida high school student, is found shot and killed, in Sanford, Fla., a community north of Orlando.

Several eyewitnesses report to police that they heard a scuffle, then a cry for help, and then a gunshot.

According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.

Martin is unresponsive and pronounced dead at the scene. He has no weapons on him, only a pack of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea.

Zimmerman tells police he killed Martin in self defense. Taking him at his word, police do not arrest him, nor administer a drug or alcohol test. They also did not run a background check.

March 9: Trayvon Martin’s family demands that police release the 911 tapes or make an arrest nearly one month after Martin was killed. Police declined to comment at the time, but told ABC News the tapes would be released the following week.

March 12: ABC News uncovers questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of Martin, including the alleged “correction” of at least one eyewitness’ account.

Sanford Police Chief Billy Lee said there is no evidence to dispute Zimmerman’s assertion that he shot Martin out of self-defense.

March 16: Police recordings made the night Zimmerman allegedly shot and killed Martin sent the boy’s mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, “He killed my son,” a family representative tells ABC News.

ABC News affiliate WFTV publishes excerpts from the 911 calls.

One of several petitions for Zimmerman’s arrest has garnered more than 250,000 signatures on a change.org site, and at one point signatures were pouring in at the rate of 10,000 an hour, according to the website.

March 18: Martin’s family asks Attorney General Eric Holder and the FBI to get involved in the investigation of their son’s death.




"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Formo
12 years ago
I'm not really arguing your points. But here are some other bits:

How does the kid know if the grown man is following him to shoot him, to kidnap him, to rape him, to just say hi, or what not? The kid doesn't know, thus, you get defensive.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Exactly what I said.. He doesn't know the purpose of being followed and like I said, we don't know how the altercation started outside of Zimmerman's point of view.

The more I read, the more I fault the adult. It sounds more and more like the adult (figuratively) backed the kid into a corner.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



So you are saying that in most circumstances it's ok for one to jack someone in the nose (bloody/broken nose), put him on his ass and then bounce his head off the ground (lacerations/bleeding from the back of Zimmerman's head)? Again, we dont' know what started that altercation, so Martin may very well be in the right to do such things.. But at the same time, Zimmerman also has a right to protect himself, does he not?

How does an adult shoot a kid in self defense after the adult has followed the kid and leaves his vehicle to approach/question the kid? Didn't the 911 operator also mention to the adult following him was NOT necessary?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Yes, the operator told Zimmerman that following the kid wasn't necessary. And Zimmerman actually responded with, "OK".

After the adult shot the kid, did the adult immediately call 911?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



That is a REALLY good question.
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4PackGirl
12 years ago
ok, let me simplify this entire issue with one simple question...

if zimmermann had listened to law enforcement he was speaking to on his phone who told him they were on their way & that he didn't need to continue following the kid, would the kid be dead?

pretty damn simple, right?

i don't wanna hear squat about this kids past or even the zimmermann dude's past, who's black, who's white, who's hispanic, & i sure as hell don't care what jesse jackson or al sharpton think either.

any person walking down the street doing nothing to you or your personal property does not deserve to be shot - PERIOD!!
it amazes me that some of you actually think this is all good, cool, & fine. WTF?!? i don't give two shits what the damn florida law says either - if nothing else, this guy was absolutely stalking & harassing this kid. convict his ass on that bare minimum.

4PackGirl
12 years ago
and another thing....
zimmermann wouldn't have HAD to defend himself if he had simply GONE THE FUCK HOME!!!!!!

Zero2Cool
12 years ago

So you are saying that in most circumstances it's ok for one to jack someone in the nose (bloody/broken nose), put him on his ass and then bounce his head off the ground (lacerations/bleeding from the back of Zimmerman's head)? Again, we dont' know what started that altercation, so Martin may very well be in the right to do such things.. But at the same time, Zimmerman also has a right to protect himself, does he not?

Originally Posted by: Formo 



I think this comment is skipping the chain of events. If they are both walking along and the kid pops the adult in the nose, yes, I agree with the right to self defense on the part of the adult.

The kid is walking. The adult is following him in his vehicle. At this point, I ask myself, why does one follow someone and why? When are those intentions ever for the good? If I'm that kid (and I've been in a similar situation, once on foot, once in my car) I am in fear of my own personal safety.

We do know that if the adult never leaves his vehicle, there is no altercation, would you agree? The adult had essentially two weapons, his car and gun. The kid has what to defend himself? Skittles? Ice Tea? True, the adult has NO CLUE what the kid has ... which makes me ask the next question ... why get out of your vehicle at all when you've already contacted the authorities?

I'm simply not buying the adult claiming self defense when HE initiated the contact by following the kid and also getting out of his vehicle.


Edit, just started reading this on CNN.

Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, told CNN Monday that they ran outside. "Within seconds," they were about 10 feet away from Martin's body, Lamilla said.

"(Zimmerman) was standing over the body, basically straddling the body with his hand on Trayvon's back," said Cutcher, adding that they called three times to him before he finally asked them to call police. "It didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way."

CNN.com  wrote:




Edit2.

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