beast
a year ago

I can't stress this enough, not being a dick, but how the hell do you know this? lol I feel numbers should be so freaking easy, but each time I think 'EUREKA' it turns out I'm a confused as a three dollar bill!

I appreciate your patience and effort on this btw.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

That's like asking me how I know NFL rules. I watch the game, and learn the rules and research stuff when it doesn't make sense to me. It probably also helps that I work in accounting. Like how do you know how to set up and develop a website? Oh, you work.in tech.

The cap is simply an accounting system set up by the NFL to spread signing bonuses equally over the first 5 year of contract signed. (Or less if the contract is less than 5 years).

If a players is released or traded, then 100% of the unaccounted for signing bonus (that was spread into future years) must be fully accounted for in the next following year.

With the exception if they use a post June destination when cutting said players (teams get two post June destination per year) or if the team actually waits until post June, then it must be fully accounted for in the next two years.

The NFL accounting is a hell lot simpler than GAAP accounting.


The really hard part is when media and fans start talking about Dead cap and Cap Hits, because it involves money that's already been paid out in years past but has not been accounted for. 

People  understand paid money that's been accounted for and unpaid money that has not been accounted for... as that's basically cash basis which is simply dealing with cash money.

It the accrual basis that confuses the hell out of people, which is simply money that was paid out at a previous time, but they have not yet accounted for it being paid out.


I remember on here, Julius Peppers had a cap hit for like $15 million, and people were demanding he take a reduction. One person said he needed to come down to $12 million for this year.

But here the thing, he's contract call for only $12 millions in new money for that year, with accounting for an additional $3 million in dead money which he was already paid and was basically his first year pay.

So for long term contracts, the first year pay is usually mostly wrapped up in signing bonus, which is the spread equally over the first 5 years of however long the contract is, which is why the deals are backloaded and you don't need as much money for the first year of an extension.
​​​​​​
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

That's like asking me how I know NFL rules. I watch the game, and learn the rules and research stuff when it doesn't make sense to me. It probably also helps that I work in accounting. Like how do you know how to set up and develop a website? Oh, you work.in tech.​ 

Originally Posted by: beast 



The rules are in a book that can be read, so that's how I'd guess you knew the rules. I know a lot of people who watch football and have zero clue about the rules. As for how do I know how to setup a website? I was doing it for fun far before professionally and the how is trial and error and reading. 

So, I really am not sure I understand how you know how the contract is going to work without seeing the contract itself. That is what confuses me most about these websites that have the contract numbers. They have a general principle to them -- I assume. You mentioned dead cap, cap hit, and all that. That's where the confusion is with me as well. I see many outlets saying X and then Y for the same exact thing. It's like they see a car and they call it a Pinto, and then someone else confidently calls it an Escort. And if you don't know the difference, you're just left thinking it's a tiny car. Granted, most probably couldn't give a damn. 

I've been reading things here and there, and I still think it's better to trade Aaron Rodgers post-June 1st.  If it's about paying this year vs next year, I'd rather post June. The numbers just look better for Packers. Couldn't they use that freed up cap space for signing bonus on the guys I mentioned before? Then again, our 2024 roster doesn't have too many players signed so maybe the pay me now approach is better than pay me later.

All in all here, I am glad I don't gotta do this crap for a living. The NFL makes things too complicated.
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beast
a year ago


I've been reading things here and there, and I still think it's better to trade Aaron Rodgers post-June 1st.  If it's about paying this year vs next year, I'd rather post June. The numbers just look better for Packers. Couldn't they use that freed up cap space for signing bonus on the guys I mentioned before? Then again, our 2024 roster doesn't have too many players signed so maybe the pay me now approach is better than pay me later.

All in all here, I am glad I don't gotta do this crap for a living. The NFL makes things too complicated.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

You're confusing cash vs accounting again.

Signing guys to extensions with signing bonus will cost the Packers a lot of cash but it'll actually free up accounting because the signing bonuses get spread over the first 5 years of the contract.

So no, we don't need more cap space for extensions, as the extensions themselves will free up the cap space (but get rid of cash).


Also, have you considered this, if you wait to June to trade Rodgers, that means the Packers don't get a single draft pick for Rodgers in 2023, because the draft happens before June.

The only reasons to wait post June are1) Too piss off the Jets and Rodgers and demand more.
2) Sign FAs in 2023
3) Sign 2023 draft picks (looks like they're going to cost about $11 million)


But considering the Packers don't seem to even be attempting to do #2... and they already have the cap space for #3 .... the question becomes is #1 worth it enough to miss out of additional 2023 draft picks?

And that depends on what the Jets are offering and if you truly believe you can squeeze out more from them.
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

You're confusing cash vs accounting again.

Originally Posted by: beast 


My friend, I assure you, there are much more things that I an confusing that just those two! I did however hear someone say the Post June 1 trade means Packers hit $15  million on 2023 and $24 million on 2024 which is what I think you were trying to get through my dumb skull. 

So, with that understood (cross fingers), I would suspect the Packers complete the trade in the month of MAY. Why you ask? My golly gosh I am so tickled you asked! I think the Packers want 2024 draft capital more than they want 2023 draft capital as they presumably know they will not get 13th overall. My reasoning is simple. Salary Cap space. I don't think they're tanking in 2023, however, I do feel they know they're gonna need a year of "meh" and not swing for the fences. And two 1st round draft picks? I mean ... money money money.


I'd like to bounce something else into this thread. Do you think it irks Aaron Rodgers that the Jets felt the likes of Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Sam Darnold and 
Zach Wilson were all worth 1st round pick, but he isn't? I mean, assuming Packers want a first round and assuming Jets are refusing -- of course.  Do you also think Rodgers wants to be traded for a higher pick than Brett Favre was? I know it sounds trivial and stupid, but athletes are competitive as heck. And we all know Rodgers can hold a grudge. 

Something else flew between my ears. What if the trade compensation is completed/agreed but the hang up is the "adjustment" to Aaron Rodgers contract? Rodgers chose his words carefully when he told Pat McAfee that his decision to play was not what was hanging things up. I would have to listen to it again, but I believe he was focusing his words about him not being the issue pertaining to his desire to play/not play. Either way, it makes me curious.
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beast
a year ago


So, with that understood (cross fingers), I would suspect the Packers complete the trade in the month of MAY. Why you ask? My golly gosh I am so tickled you asked! I think the Packers want 2024 draft capital more than they want 2023 draft capital as they presumably know they will not get 13th overall. My reasoning is simple. Salary Cap space. I don't think they're tanking in 2023, however, I do feel they know they're gonna need a year of "meh" and not swing for the fences. And two 1st round draft picks? I mean ... money money money.


I'd like to bounce something else into this thread. Do you think it irks Aaron Rodgers that the Jets felt the likes of Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson were all worth 1st round pick, but he isn't? I mean, assuming Packers want a first round and assuming Jets are refusing -- of course.  

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


That's assuming they can get better value from the Jets in 2024, which might be correct, but I'm not sure it is, and expect the Jets are refusing to give up a 1st in any year for a player that was 90% going to retire a month ago.

And I think Rodgers understands a team wanting to pay as little as possible. Fun fact: Jets are one of the few teams that did not pass on drafting him in 2005, of course they did draft a Kicker in round 2 ahead of Nick Collins and many others, so yeah.

I think the Packers are rebuilding (at least for a year), or reloading if you prefer, but I think they'd want those picks now as rookies often take at least a year to gel and this way they'll be ready to go next year.


Also, I'm wild guessing here, but I think the Packers are going to be drafting offense because both we need offensive players and to try to make Love look more successful.

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Zero2Cool
a year ago
Nice nugget on Jets not skipping him in 2005, but I don't think Rodgers would have made it to 26 anyway so doubt that factors into anything. 

I think the Packers are rebuilding (at least for a year), or reloading if you prefer, but I think they'd want those picks now as rookies often take at least a year to gel and this way they'll be ready to go next year.

Also, I'm wild guessing here, but I think the Packers are going to be drafting offense because both we need offensive players and to try to make Love look more successful. ​​​​​

Originally Posted by: beast 

Yes, I've said that a few times that I think the Packers are knowingly taking their medicine in 2023.

As for wanting Jordan Love to be successful, I think this is a BS thing to say. The Packers couldn't care less how Love looks. They want to be successful, period. And the QB is a major part of that. The way that comment comes off is they'll sacrifice the team in favor of how Love looks. It's quite simple here. The Packers had elite QB so they felt they could get Tier 2 offensive talent and their elite QB would elevate that talent. Now they have a Tier 2 (optimistically speaking) so they will likely need to add more Tier 1 talent around him. 
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buckeyepackfan
a year ago

DID GUTE JUST BLINK?

Packers GM Brian Gutekunst just spoke at the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix…
Here’s a recap of what he had to say (per Tom Pelissero) 
⬇️
-There’s no timeline on trading QB Aaron Rodgers, hoping for soon 
-The Packers don’t necessarily need a first round pick in return from the Jets 
-Any chance Rodgers plays for GB again? It’s not trending that way, but “all options are on the table”
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
Zero2Cool
a year ago

DID GUTE JUST BLINK?

Packers GM Brian Gutekunst just spoke at the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix…
Here’s a recap of what he had to say (per Tom Pelissero) 
⬇️
-There’s no timeline on trading QB Aaron Rodgers, hoping for soon 
-The Packers don’t necessarily need a first round pick in return from the Jets 
-Any chance Rodgers plays for GB again? It’s not trending that way, but “all options are on the table”

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 


Nicely laid out! I still hate this editor though.

You can only assume someone blinked if you believe the rumors. This is why rumors and hyperbole are stupid as hell. It sets expectations based on false narratives. Be careful what you believe!
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beast
a year ago
I think some of us already picked up on, unlikely to be a guaranteed 1st round pick. But question still is what's the overall comp amount.


Also, there better be something in there, where if the Jets win a Super Bowl with Rodgers in the next two years, then we do get a 2025 1st round pick, and I would try to also if he wins an MVP in there as well, to lower the bar a bit.


But there still be a bit difference if we're talking about multiple 2nds or just a single 3rd type compensation.

Being biased I'm hoping for multiple 2nds being the base guarantee and conditional picks on top of that.
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

I think some of us already picked up on, unlikely to be a guaranteed 1st round pick. But question still is what's the overall comp amount.

Also, there better be something in there, where if the Jets win a Super Bowl with Rodgers in the next two years, then we do get a 2025 1st round pick, and I would try to also if he wins an MVP in there as well, to lower the bar a bit.

But there still be a bit difference if we're talking about multiple 2nds or just a single 3rd type compensation.

Being biased I'm hoping for multiple 2nds being the base guarantee and conditional picks on top of that.

Originally Posted by: beast 



I've been hoping for 2023 first round, 2024 first round and 2025 first round. My expectations are much different and they're more around the Favre compensation. If Packers get more than that, yeehaw, if they get less than that, meh, I'll still destroy everyone in Madden either way.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (3m) : They do not do it for "content sake".
dfosterf (10h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (17h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (18h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (18h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (22h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
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