earthquake
2 years ago
From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.
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Zero2Cool
2 years ago

From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Well said, thanks. I know I'm walking a line here that might be blurred. I'm about to blur it more. I want the records to be accurate as possible, so if that means an ambitious two or three year analysis of all of the NFL data and film to update the records, then do it. BUT, the caveat is once they conclude the research, a record is a record and that's it. As a record holder, I would like to only be concerned about someone new breaking my record, not someone who played before I was born to "break" my record, ya know? lol I know I'm doing very poorly and explaining my point. Sorry to anyone I'm confusing.
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Zero2Cool
2 years ago
Found this about Deacon Jones.

Meanwhile, on the new, unofficial all-time NFL leaderboard, Bruce Smith (200) and Reggie White (198) still reign supreme. The fresh faces in the top-10 list are Deacon Jones, who zoomed past Kevin Greene and into third place with 173.5 sacks from 1961 through 1974, Jack Youngblood, with 151.5 sacks from 1971 through 1984, and Alan Page, with 148.5 sacks from 1967 through 1981.


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Cheesey
2 years ago
I used the Titanic as an example to show that what was once accepted as “fact”, can change when new evidence is discovered. Just as new evidence was discovered about the amount of sacks.
Maybe they deserve a seperate records book.
After all, there were different rules then. Like the fact that offensive linemen couldn’t grab a defender like they can now. They couldn’t use their hands at all, thus making it a lot easier for a defender to get to the QB.
The use of TV must make it easier to tabulate sacks too. What about before 1960? There’s no way to accurately count sacks, or other stats.
Like I said, maybe they should have a book of stats related to pre 1982. The rules and amount of games played per season were different then.
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Zero2Cool
2 years ago
Willie Davis would have surely felt similar emotions learning he's the unofficial sack leader of the Green Bay Packers.
Al 'Bubba' Baker on becoming unofficial single-season sack king: 'Tears just started running down my eyes' 
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Zero2Cool
2 years ago
Michael David Smith @MichaelDavSmith Despite the excellent research that @pfref has collected on pre-1982 sacks, I'm told that the NFL does not anticipate making those records official.


Sounds like the NFL doesn't care about accuracy.
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dfosterf (21h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Teams will receive a 3rd challenge if 1 was successful. Previously, it took 2
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