Cheesey
3 years ago

My intention wasn't to take a dig at you, but I did want to challenge a prominent idea that came across in your (and WPR's) post. I'll get to that in a sec; but point taken that I could've phrased the post better to challenge that idea more directly.

Regarding limits on lawyers - it's not something I've ever heard of before. A few clarifications may be needed, because what you talk about regarding an attorney's ability to charge:
1. Attorney's charge fix fee (or percentage) or hourly, but I'm sure you aren't explaining the limits on a lawyer's earning power correctly. For example, a settlement involves no winners or losers - it is a resolution that is founded on compromise. A lawyer can't be limited to not charging for a settlement if they lose because, by definition, there are no losers in settlements. Not to sound like I'm dragging you, because even I still get mixed up navigating the legal system - it is complex. My point is that I've heard of limits for PI lawyers on settlements, but that doesn't limit how such a lawyer can earn from their profession because a PI lawyer's earning/revenue streams can be so diverse (e.g., referral fees for client referrals, fee from being a mediator, being an arbitrator, and (most lucrative of all) fees from taking case to court and arguing in front of a judge). That's even before a PI lawyer that is part of a law firm gets to share in the profits of the law firm they are at (which routinely results in significant bonus payouts). A limit on settlements does not altogether limit how much a lawyer earns from their profession.

2. Lawyers are different than players. You wouldn't hire players to act for your benefit/best interest. You hire lawyers to do only such; lawyers are obligated under rules of their profession to put your interests first, and have a duty to advocate for your best interests (and place your interests above their own in the lawyer-client relationship context). To that end, it can be argued that limits on a lawyer's ability to charge for a particular service they offer you should not be seen as a limit on lawyer's earning ability. Rather, it (i.e., limit of charging 1/3 the settlement figure) is a mechanism to ensure a lawyer is acting within the moral and legal scope of his obligations to you as his/her client - namely, they are not benefiting improperly at your expense. I know for a fact that it is so, so easy for lawyers to bill in a way that you won't see it coming. I've seen cases in the personal injury context where, even before a conference begins between the parties, a lawyer has charged his/her client many thousand dollars before speaking or saying anything. In other words, limits of what lawyers are allowed to charge for settlements from their clients who, usually, are vulnerable (i.e., you usually get a lawyer at one of the toughest/lowest points in your life), not as savvy (i.e., clever in "masking" charges or reading legal bills), and to whom lawyers have legal (and moral) obligations of elevating their interest... I think it is entirely a different context than football players playing for the entertainment of others, to whom they owe no legal (or moral) obligations.

Which brings me back to the idea I wanted to challenge: I'm quite dumbfounded whenever I see people complain/wish football players made less. Why? These are very often football players who're from poor means (whether rural or urban), who've spent the bulk of their lives assuming risk of injury while training/playing for nothing in return until they get to the NFL. All the more power to them for cashing in every penny they can once they get to the NFL. I'm not sure what it is about people in society generally poo-pooing others getting a boatload of green paper after chasing it for so long.

I'm being serious about what I said regarding free markets; no other economic system in recorded history has produced wealth to the rate we're seeing today (which, to be clear, is not to say the system is flawed and can be tweaked to improve). You, I and NFL players only have our labor to sell in exchange for money - we can use it to make products, offer services or provide entertainment for consumption in exchange for making an earning. If an NFL player gets a multi-million dollar contract, all the more power to them; good on them for capitalizing in the way many people only ever dream of. Capping salaries is not going to reduce ticket prices (I note the money the NFL receives from selling its broadcast rights is enough to cover the vast, vast majority of player salaries without ticket/gate revenue).

I'm not sure why NFL players should be held to a standard (i.e., put a limit on how much they earn) when that is not something many of us would support in other scenarios (e.g., CEO salaries, teacher salaries, serving members in the military). I'm all for people chasing their dreams and cashing in (legally) to the most of their ability once they are in a position to do so. If it leads to 9-figure incomes - cool! All the more power to them, as they are receiving a return on their product/service/performance for entertainment that the market has deemed to be a fair exchange/return for what such players are offering. And it's neat seeing so many NFL players who grew up on farms, or lived such tough lives in poor neighborhoods strike it big, and become financial engines for their family, friends, and loved ones - and work to give them (and themselves) a comfortable life.

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 



I get what you are saying.
I wish CEOs would be given salary limits too. Most of them make way too much money, while the real workers can’t get a decent wage. Who pays for it? Us.
As far as players taking chances on injuries, people like the police and front line health care workers put their lives and health on the line every day. Cops get killed all the time by criminals. Fire fighters actually put their lives on the line too. And they have to do their dangerous jobs for decades. How many football players get killed in the line of duty each year? Yet these workers don’t make in their entire careers what a player makes in a year.
And after a player retires, they can get “real” jobs if they want. Many have come from poor means, but are college graduates that, if they haven’t pissed away their earnings from football, are most likely set for life.
I’m not against the free market. And as I said, what I stated was just a “wish list”, not realistic. I just wish things could be more equal. There are real heroes out there that to me deserve more then what they get as compared to people playing a game.
I know it will never happen.
And it’s probably good it won’t happen. Maybe some day these athletes will price themselves out of existence if it’s not reined in. They might end up killing the “golden goose”.


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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
I don't think the amount of money one earns is a problem at all. The more I think about this, the more I think we have a glorifying problem. Remember that deplorable show MTV Cribs? They go around showing off people's homes. This brought upon competition to have a better house, or houses. If players salaries were not made public, even to each other, would we be in this "must be highest paid" rampage? No. Sports are so different than the common business with this regard. Every job and every career path I've taken has had some requirement that your salary is not disclosed. When I worked for dish network I was told I couldn't receive a raise, although I more than anyone else earned it. The reason was I had already been earning a quarter more than the highest paid supervisor and I hit the ceiling. Mind you, working in a contact center being the customer service trainer and sales manager is nothing to brag about. It's basically the tallest midget. I showed up everyday, worked overtime and knew the systems in an out.

The point I'm getting at is salaries shouldn't be disclosed. I know it's probably impossible in sports because of the salary cap and how easily it would be owners for fook a player over. If they did go with a non disclosure of salary, I think it would be amazing for the NFL and equal the markets regardless of size. The caveat that I would request on the players behalf is that all players receive a decade pension for each year of NFL service up to life. Obviously, players like Tom Brady won't live for another 200 years, so the pension would go up to death. This way players are provided for and I think more people would try to get into the NFL.

I know it's just a pipe dream. The ripple effect would be incredible. A player getting $100,000 a year for pension would massively help the economy too. They could go back to school, finish their degree that the scholarship provided or even pay for it themselves.

Then again, I'm also someone who feels every single person should have go into the military for 1-2 years post High School.
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Cheesey
3 years ago
“Glorifying problem”.....you hit the nail in the head with that one.
Why do people glorify teens that get on TV because they get pregnant? Or trashy people from “The Jersey Shores”?
Or housewives from various cities?
So called “reality shows” that are classless.
Sorry for going off on a tangent.....I couldn’t help myself!!!🤪
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
The NFL in a memo to teams has said the salary cap floor has been increased from $175 million to $180 million after talks with the NFLPA.

They are already bumping the worst-case scenario cash for the salary cap. This makes me believe the salary cap is going to be hovering around $200 million.

If the Owners want to look like "good guys", they could chip in a few percent of their revenue share towards the players and look like freaking heroes -- for two minutes.
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Cheesey
3 years ago

The NFL in a memo to teams has said the salary cap floor has been increased from $175 million to $180 million after talks with the NFLPA.

They are already bumping the worst-case scenario cash for the salary cap. This makes me believe the salary cap is going to be hovering around $200 million.

If the Owners want to look like "good guys", they could chip in a few percent of their revenue share towards the players and look like freaking heroes -- for two minutes.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Does a “measly” 5 million dollars make that much difference?
Especially for teams that are already way over the cap?
We are about to lose some of our best players because of the cap drop.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

Does a “measly” 5 million dollars make that much difference?
Especially for teams that are already way over the cap?
We are about to lose some of our best players because of the cap drop.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



We are not going to lose some of our best players because of the dip in salary cap. And yes, the $5 million is a huge difference. Players like Aaron Jones were going to be gone regardless. The Packers reportedly offered him a contract that was top five and he declined it. I really like Jones, but no RB is worth what he's going to get from like the Jaguars or something. How many RB's have we watched fail to achieve success with their new teams? A lot. Jones would be better served to sign a one year deal with attainable incentives and then cash in big on 2022 when that new TV money is more understood.

What players are you concerned with losing because of the salary cap drop? Aside from (I assume) Aaron Jones.
http://www.packershome.com/forum/Posts/t29145-2021-Green-Bay-Packers-Roster 

Allen Lazard (ERFA), Robert Tonyan (RFA), Raven Greene (RFA), Jamaal Williams I think will all be back in 2021. Corey Linsley being 30 years old is probably gonna just take the highest paid offer. Aaron Jones I think is going to be gone, but Williams is a year younger and will be cheaper anyway.
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Cheesey
3 years ago

We are not going to lose some of our best players because of the dip in salary cap. And yes, the $5 million is a huge difference. Players like Aaron Jones were going to be gone regardless. The Packers reportedly offered him a contract that was top five and he declined it. I really like Jones, but no RB is worth what he's going to get from like the Jaguars or something. How many RB's have we watched fail to achieve success with their new teams? A lot. Jones would be better served to sign a one year deal with attainable incentives and then cash in big on 2022 when that new TV money is more understood.

What players are you concerned with losing because of the salary cap drop? Aside from (I assume) Aaron Jones.
http://www.packershome.com/forum/Posts/t29145-2021-Green-Bay-Packers-Roster 

Allen Lazard (ERFA), Robert Tonyan (RFA), Raven Greene (RFA), Jamaal Williams I think will all be back in 2021. Corey Linsley being 30 years old is probably gonna just take the highest paid offer. Aaron Jones I think is going to be gone, but Williams is a year younger and will be cheaper anyway.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Mostly Jones, Linsley and Williams. I know we probably wouldn’t be able to afford them even if the cap wasn’t lowered.
It just frustrates me that you work hard to develope players, only to have them chase “the almighty dollar” first chance they get. I know it’s that way across the league. Not just “my” team.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

Mostly Jones, Linsley and Williams. I know we probably wouldn’t be able to afford them even if the cap wasn’t lowered.
It just frustrates me that you work hard to develope players, only to have them chase “the almighty dollar” first chance they get. I know it’s that way across the league. Not just “my” team.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I think this is a fascinating situation. Not only do we have COVID restricting the NFL revenue, we have new TV deals. ESPN's deal runs out in 2022. Fox, CBS and NBC end in 2023. I believe the NFL wants to finalize the new TV deals before confirming/setting the 2021 Salary Cap.

If I'm a player who is ascending, I sign a one year, maybe two year deal for 2021 knowing if I rock out I'll cash out in a lucrative long-term deal.
If I'm a player still in his prime, I'm doing a one year deal for 2021 knowing the ensuing years are going to be more financially fruitful.
If I'm a player in the decline, I sign in a manner that aligns with my priorities. If my priority is winning that elusive ring, I sign bargain deal.

A RB closing in on 30 years old -- I don't know what I would do. I'm someone who values winning and legacy over financial wealth so I would probably try for a three year guaranteed contract with the Packers. 2021 - $1 million, 2022 - $2 million and 2022 - $8 million.

Yes, taking the time to develop players and then them leaving after four years has to be a difficult. I don't think players leave the first chance they get and that's really being disingenuous to the plethora of players who re-sign lower offers than they could have had elsewhere. Just because the news doesn't plaster the selfless players does not mean they do not exist.

I do think Jamaal Williams will re-sign and probably be the Packers leading ball carrier in 2021 with AJ Dillon right behind him.
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beast
3 years ago
Sounds like the NFL believes they can lock up 100% raise in TV contracts revenue from most of the TV companies, except maybe ESPN and ABC which are owned by Disney.

If so, they should be able to easily level out the decline in cap, though would they dare level it out before the deals are completed?

I think it depends how close they are to getting the companies to sign them.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/20/nfl-reportedly-seeking-to-double-broadcast-rights-fees/ 
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