nerdmann
3 years ago

Are you saying one of the players should have noticed this during the play or pre-snap? And what if two realize it and move over? I don't think that's the right approach. This was one of those cases where there is 8 seconds left and they have no timeouts left and you should play soft.

What's frustrating from my view is when it's third and 4 our defensive backs are 8 yards back. That is when you press and get in their face, not when they need 39 yards for a touchdown with 8 seconds left.

I don't know who it is. There has to be some young up an comer who can scheme LB's into the QB's face. What the Buccaneers have is what I want and I hate they got it and we don't.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Sick of seeing that shit.

Allowing that TD is unacceptable. Turned oit to be the winning margin too.

What also disgusted me was muktiple "12 men on the field" penalties. No one on the Packers can claim to be unaware of that possibility, as Aaron catches people on it constantly. So why are we getting called on it in the Championship game? It's downright sloppy.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Mucky Tundra
3 years ago

... How exactly is too many men on the field on D the fault of Mike Pettine? Last I checked, Pettine's job is to make and relay the play call, with position coaches relaying the information to their players on who should be subbing in/out. If the suggestion is that Mike Pettine is getting the playcall in too late, then please link me that article/post (because, in such a scenario, Pettine certainly does deserve blame for 12 men on the field calls); but blindly placing all issues at the feet of Mike is not good insight.

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 



Why wouldn't it be Pettines fault? Isn't he ultimately responsible for everything on the defense (good and bad)? Isn't he responsible for the position coaches under his authority? This isn't the first time they've had trouble getting guys on and off the field this season on defense.
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all_about_da_packers
3 years ago

Why wouldn't it be Pettines fault? Isn't he ultimately responsible for everything on the defense (good and bad)? Isn't he responsible for the position coaches under his authority? This isn't the first time they've had trouble getting guys on and off the field this season on defense.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



By that logic, blame the head coach, who delegates defensive duties to Pettine (and I'll note it was reported that LaFleur, not Pettine, was responsible for filling the DB-coach vacancy last year with Jerry Gray). I'll take your argument to it's logical extreme: let's blame Mark Murphy since both LaFleur and Gutey - the two guys responsible for collection and training of the defensive staff/players - report to him. An absence of evidence that Pettine is relaying calls late or Pettine has final say on personnel subbing during games does not itself serve as evidence that gameday subbing/logistical issues deserve to be put at the feet of Pettine.

I'm not saying Pettine isn't at fault (like I noted before, some of his play calls were baffling and seemingly without any consideration of down-distance-time remaining) - but to blame him blindly for every issue on D isn't right either. I'll point out we've seen on the offensive side of the ball delayed relaying of calls/getting lined up that leads to wasting timeouts to avoid a delay of game - this suggests there may be a broader game ops issue that LaFleur needs to sort out beyond just the defensive side of the ball.

Either way, 12-men on the field penalties shouldn't be disproportionately weighted when assessing if Pettine should be the DC of the team (assuming LaFleur wants him back and Pettine is willing to renew his contract).
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nerdmann
3 years ago

By that logic, blame the head coach, who delegates defensive duties to Pettine (and I'll note it was reported that LaFleur, not Pettine, was responsible for filling the DB-coach vacancy last year with Jerry Gray). I'll take your argument to it's logical extreme: let's blame Mark Murphy since both LaFleur and Gutey - the two guys responsible for collection and training of the defensive staff/players - report to him. An absence of evidence that Pettine is relaying calls late or Pettine has final say on personnel subbing during games does not itself serve as evidence that gameday subbing/logistical issues deserve to be put at the feet of Pettine.

I'm not saying Pettine isn't at fault (like I noted before, some of his play calls were baffling and seemingly without any consideration of down-distance-time remaining) - but to blame him blindly for every issue on D isn't right either. I'll point out we've seen on the offensive side of the ball delayed relaying of calls/getting lined up that leads to wasting timeouts to avoid a delay of game - this suggests there may be a broader game ops issue that LaFleur needs to sort out beyond just the defensive side of the ball.

Either way, 12-men on the field penalties shouldn't be disproportionately weighted when assessing if Pettine should be the DC of the team (assuming LaFleur wants him back and Pettine is willing to renew his contract).

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 



Matt is still highly valuable on offense.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
all_about_da_packers
3 years ago

Matt is still highly valuable on offense.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I don't disagree. My point is that there are some game ops issues that have showed themselves throughout the season on both sides of the ball. Ultimately, LaFleur (who is head coach responsible for both offensive and defensive sides of the ball) should at least explore the reason for these issues occurring at various points across the season.

It's quite possible we aren't privy to info that would show Pettine sucks on game day communication (I mean, if your boss calls you out publicly on something like LaFleur did on off-coverage by CBS with minimal distance to go, and that still doesn't lead you to prevent that from occurring entirely.... it does say something negative about you/Pettine). But what Lord Sixth (best avatar on here, hands down, Mucky) was suggesting displayed faulty logic, IMO.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Cheesey
3 years ago
Why have a D-coordinator, if he’s not the one responsible for the defense calls?
The head coach, who happens to also be making the offensive play calls, shouldn’t have to hold the hand of the man GETTING PAID to handle the defense side of the ball.
And if it’s proven that that guy isn’t handling the job when it matters most, he screwed up, and should be held responsible.
He SHOULD have pulled King out of the game when it became obvious he wasn’t talented enough (or smart enough) to do his job.
Put ANYONE else in! They couldn’t do any worse then King did.
So.... someone has to be held responsible.
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porky88
3 years ago
The defense gave up just 10 points and forced 3 turnovers in the second half. Their adjustments worked.

Pettine made the wrong call at the end of the half, but Kevin King was playing the deep out and he should have kept the receiver in front of him. Again, it was the wrong call but you need better football IQ from your CB in that moment.

Personally, I would bring Pettine back. The defense has steadily improved in my view. I also don’t see a logical replacement at this point.
all_about_da_packers
3 years ago

Put ANYONE else in! They couldn’t do any worse then King did.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



... Do you really believe that? I mean, having seen Ahmad Carrol, Joey Thomas, Jarret Bush (at CB, not the ST ace), LaDarius Gunter... you seriously think we couldn't have one of the backups do worse than King? Heck, just our #3 CB, Chandon Sullivan, was getting beat all over the field too.

I would agree King's performance was, at best, a shade better than "can this guy even play in the NFL" levels of atrocious. But just the performance of our #3 CB in the game would suggest the backups to King could do worse.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Cheesey
3 years ago
In this case, yes.
I don’t think anyone could have done more to lose the game for us.
He didn’t just screw up once. It was multiple times.
If a guy on offense fumbles, and does it consistently, chances are he won’t see the field.
King was a 100% liability.

So why not at least try to stop the bleeding?
But they didn’t, and the best shot the Packers had to go to the super bowl was wasted.
Two years in a row, the same team that beat us in the regular season knocked us out in the playoffs. Coincidence? I doubt it.
Their coaches must know something. Tampa lost 5 games, so they were not unbeatable.
Our offense also laid an egg. They had their shots in the second half.
I guess I’m just frustrated.
I really thought our team was better then Tampa. My emotions are still raw.
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beast
3 years ago


Two years in a row, the same team that beat us in the regular season knocked us out in the playoffs. Coincidence? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 


Two years in a row that the team with the best matchups against the Packers beat the Packers...

The NFL is all about matchups, and the Packers live and die with their offensive and defensive fronts (for this argument let's call OLBer linemen as in the 3-4 they're edge rushers and therefore are linemen).


The Packers best talent is in their linemen... if the WRs/CBs have a bad day, the linemen have been usually been able to pick up the up the slack (or get some luck) and have still won the game.

If the linemen have trouble... oh boy, you're in for the long ass day... as you can see by all of our losses over the last two years invovled that. Love Adams and Alexander, and like Amos and Savage but the WR/TE and CB/S as a whole, can't nessarily pick the slack for when the linemen are getting beat.

49ers and Bucs have linemen on both sides of the ball that could either beat or at least stalemate our linemen.... AND Packers have struggled against teams with coverage LBers as the Packers outside is RB passes, and when LBers like the 49ers, Bucs, Vikings and Colts have, can cover our RB and can beat our lines... the Packers are in trouble.


The NFL is all about matchups... I thought the Bears 2018 team was it? Was going to go to the Super Bowl as long as they could avoid the Eagles because that was a bad matchup... but nope... drew them in the first round and a hard fought game and a double doink later, and they got knocked out in the first round by the Eagles.

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Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
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dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
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beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
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